Two pakistani men have been convicted of grooming "young white girls" and Jack straw thinks the Pakistani community needs to get its act in order. (source)
I think the criticism he has recieved for stereotyping is besides the point and that he is right to discuss the issue as it needs to be discussed.
I was reading that article before and his comments annoyed because he's making it into a racial thing when it comes to pakistanis but its just a crime when someone else does it :/ :X
But then I got to this point of the article:
And actually I've heard girls say what their brothers think, how they view other girls etc etc and it does fit into that, which is just disgusting and wrong. Urgh :X
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
to think it was happening right here under our noses to. Yup these men were from Derby, from the same community I live in. & well they're not the first either. Its disgucting it's wrong & i hate to admit it but what the media are saying abotu sweeping these issues under the carpet & these men thinking less of white women,. it's kinda true.
Also scary, I mean when this news first came out about 6 weeks ago now here, on local news and in newspapers,. it was the first case after a while now, & everyone got really erm overprotective, from the boys at school to the parents & grandparents. It was wierd, but everyone thought twice. You still see everybody thinking twice about what they do & when tehy send you out. Not after dark thats totally off limits. Walking home after dark, people go out of their way to make sure you don't end up alone or just a group of girls.
BBC News
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It really was rape, they got these girls drunk, and had sex with them.
But some questions that immediately came to mind;
Will this article, and the other ones around it with much the same, further taint the perception of Asian/Muslim men in general rather than just the bad ones (like it should)?
Is there any truth in saying it's become a sort of culture for young Asian guys to do these things? What about the fact that, because they've been in the drinking game longer, white men have been doing it for years, and they are what prisons are full of?
And Why are White girls easiest prey, and should that not be sorted at their end too? And is it as much White girls as it is Drunk/Easy/Young girls, who happen to be white?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
its been reported that in some cases they were even held down.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Thanks for letting me know
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
as for the rest of your post, it has happened more than once and while it may not be as common as other crimes (or evne as common as in other communities - we simply do not know yet), it is still an issue and a problem that needs to be addressed.
There was a former MP on BBC News yesterday who mentioned some mothers had come to her with similar worries, and when she had approached the elders of the community to talk to the specific people, and tell them to behave as Muslims, the elders had simply turned around and said it was not their problem.
This was back in the 2003-2005 period and the elders had been unwilling to talk to the families of the people who had been suspected of playing such games.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
WTH
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Rapes happen all over the world, its probably 1 the 1st sins or crimes mankind has commited from the begining of time. However some1 in Jack Straws position should get there facts right b4 they open there mouth. But because Jack Straw didnt get his facts right he just showed the whole of the UK that he has more shit in his head than he has up his arse. I have pesonally been to prison on three separate occasions and altogether have served just under 7 and a half yrs. 1st of all id like 2 point out that any1 who arrives in jail 4 having commited a rape or something of that nature wether it b with a woman or kids they automatically get advised upon arrival that they should do there time on the protection wing as it is not safe for them on the normal wings where all the normal prisoners are. Most of them agree but the 1s that dont and go 2 the normal wings have 2 sign a disclaimer stating that they were advised against this, after this they arrive on the normal wing and state some bullshit story that they are in prison 4 drugdealing, burglary etc..etc.. However within the 1st week of there arrival the whole wing finds what they are really in prison 4, and the whole wing finds out beacause some officer will always tell 1 of the prisoners what the truth is. After this whichever prisoner does a no. on the rapist etc..etc.. becomes the hero and the officers just turn a blind eye. Getting back 2 the point if on the protection wing there are 200 prisoners from them 200 prisoners only about 5 will b asian and out of them 5 only 1 or 2 will b pakistanis.
People often mistake Virtue with Honour
Virtue is what we do
Honour is how we do it.
Does a what?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
does a number. ie kick the crap out of.
I can't read that post - too big a block of text.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Where is that from?
and the suggestion is that since sex outside marriage is taboo in Muslim society, those that want it go elsewhere.
the solution however is marriage. Get married younger and don't fall into the trap of looking for sex outside marriage.
If on the other hand the norm becomes late marriage, they will want sex before marriage then.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
doing a no. on some1 means that when u beat some1 up so bad that they need 2 go 2 hospital and spend a bit of time there and even when there fully recovered they will never look the same again.
People often mistake Virtue with Honour
Virtue is what we do
Honour is how we do it.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
another thing.
Why Pakistani men in particular 'prey on white girls'
Why not asian or something broader, that's very specific?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
what really annoyed me, why mention muslim? The fact is the large proportion of men who are paedophiles or rapists are white men. Do headlines anywhere state "white christian men"? No because it is a non issue, so why take into account religion here, more hate propaganda?
As for the men who did this i don't support them in anyway or feel any sympathy for them. But are sexual crimes like rape, paedophilia really at such a high level amongst Pakistani men, that their racial background needs to be highlighted, or there something more sinister behind these headlines?
Someone said these Pakistani men should have raped Pakistan girls. I think that's a disgustig thing to say. why? Surely they shouldn't have raped any girl regardless of their background, why would you wish the crime on any girl?
All i can say is I have known asian boys punjabi, pakistani and bangladeshi who have had a low opinion of white girls. They are seen as "easy". I wouldn't like to use the term easy, makes the girls sound like trash. But they are more sexually available compared with asian girls. Sure things are changing, but generally speaking even today most asian girls have to be home by a certain time, if not that their parents usually know where they are and who with. Their dress will be vetted, friends etc. Unfortunately on the whole that doesn't seem to be the case with caucasian girls they have more freedom in sense of what they wear, how long they stay out.
Also another big factor why asian lads would be less likely to prey on asian girls is repercussions from brothers, uncles, fathers. With caucasians girls that is less likely to occur, i think things should change where are their fathers brothers and uncles, asians boys like the ones reported need what did that brother call it a no. 1?lol
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
i think thats a stupid thing to say
how can you blame one asian mans wrong on the whole community when it happens so much within the white community itself and also
theres white people who rape asian girls to why dont we hear about this and why doesnt he state its not just one ethnicity???
The Wisest of Man Is Not The One Who Knows, But The One Who Seeks Knowledge In Order To Perform
if you can get me some chocolate that would be great.
what really annoyed me, why mention muslim? The fact is the large proportion of men who are paedophiles or rapists are white men. Do headlines anywhere state "white christian men"? No because it is a non issue, so why take into account religion here, more hate propaganda?
good point, whenever anybody gets done for any crime it only gets pointed out what religion they are if there muslim, why? so that when all is said and done the only thing any normal person will remember is the words "muslim" and "rape"
People often mistake Virtue with Honour
Virtue is what we do
Honour is how we do it.
9 Asians got arrested in Rochdale and Heywood today on similar grounds I think.
Source.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i was just telling my husband the other day, i bet the tabloids are going to highlight a dozen or more cases of rape/grooming involving asian men just to intensify their view that asian men are praying on white girls.
i'm not saying it doesn't occur, but if it has been occuring in such high proportions for such a long time, why have the stories not made it to the tabloids or news channels until today? The media have their own agenda nothing more.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Oi!, who deleted my post on here :doubt:
No, actually i think he means which ever prisoner rapes the rapist, becomes a hero. :shock:
This isn't an Asian issue is it? It's an all race/all country issue of guys picking up young girls becuase they can! If it was Asian men v White girls then we wouldn't see Bangladeshi girls get exploited, but we did (Times).
Alot of white guys see white (or other) girls as easy meat. You know I've heard this so many times. Straw has pretty much lost the plot; however, the real way to counter this (or at least start) is by raising awareness and educating people, not just potential victims but also potential gang members. Prevention is better than cure people.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
We Pakistanis need to tackle these issues.
We are ignorant of what our young males go out and do.
As families, we are afraid of confronting these thugs, because in many cases they drink and takes drugs, and are outside our control, and can be violent when confronted.
As a community, we are afraid of confronting their family elders, as everyone lives by the 'mind your own business' mantra now.
We are heading for difficult times ahead.
that is such a stupid thing to say
no one no matter what their race religion is should prey groom or rape any girl and the guys that do are desperate because they cant get any normal girls attention
I think Jack Straw is correct. Some of the comments on this thread attest to the problem, and it seems the others suggest it is either a smear job or statistically out of context. But if he happens to be right, it obviously should be addressed, how to impart western values of respect to a particular immigrant mindset that only respects modesty.
The BBC looked at this. They spoke to Pakistanis who could acknowledge the phenomenon, who had explanations for it, and who are not, I guess, personally criminal. Nobody suggests the problem is rape on a communal scale by Pakistanis, but rather that there is a cultural aberration. Now that the issue has been raised it doesn't need to be presented as exclusively a Pakistani problem, since clearly there are men from all over the world who share that logic.
Radio 4 Today - link 1
Radio 4 Today - link 2
The second link is a studio analysis of the interviews in the first.
Serves them right, they should'nt be getting drunk with strangers.....
It has been pointed out to me elsewhere that this is a very popular issue with neo-Nazis and other Paki-bashers. I don't think Straw is that, he might raise the same annoyances but it is not with malice. I guess. Pakistani communities need to address problems of this nature, because they are outrageous and will be incendiary, and at the same time I wouldn't feel proud to labour the point.
Just listening to this...
...but before I have listened to it really, the discussion in there is not as much about criminal behaviour, but about relationships too.
Listening to even the audio, the interviews at the start may be being "smart" it is not specific that they are talking about criminal grooming or "rape gangs" etc, but general who they can approach, maybe through non threatening means and goals - it seems to be about all dating etc.
Later that woman mentions how going to uni etc means people don't get married as early etc and need a quick way out - which once again does not mean those people are involved in criminal behaviour.
THAT IMO is the biggest issue that needs to be fixed - the asian/Pakistani/Muslim community cannot expect celibacy pre-marriage if the average of marriage goes towards 30. But now I don't think it is any longer only an issue of guys looking to have a pre-marital relationship - mainly because even the girls are starting to get married later and later now and it is not natural for them not to have desires.
It is also about dating and other stuff that is considered unislamic and quite a few guys (and girls) end up in long term relationships and marriages to this "easy meat" - something which may not always (or even mostly) be Islamic (as even in marriage if the other person is not Muslim, it is not really Islamic), but that not only is NOT criminal and would also not be frowned upon if you were not using islamic ettiquette to judge the actions. Non Muslims wuld generally see long term relationships or marriage as a result.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i dont think that marriage is the solution for a rapist...:/
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
Pages