Do you think the Muslim community will thrive in the UK?

Yes
58% (177 votes)
No
42% (128 votes)
Total votes: 305

4th of July 2010

Almighty God's curse be on Americans who hate muslims, invade their lands, and kill and torture innocent people. Ameen.

Muslims are already the most thriving religious group in the West. Which other community is happening as much as we are. Soon muslims will dominate EU and US. Despite the stupid plans of kafir against muslims, we are better than them in morality and in piety. Our family life is happier and our children are not yobs out of control, our sisters wear hijab and dont get pregnant as teenagers. Media does it best to make muslims look evil but thats expected from kafir media. Satan flows through kafir media, such as BBC and CNN. There the Demon is busy demonizing muslims. But Allah is helping muslims to thrive and spread. Islam is growing very rapidly in Britian and USA. France Germany and rest of Europe now has millions of muslims living successful lives. Thousands of kafirs are converting to Islam. This is a miracle of Allah, that despite 9/11, so many westerners are turning from kafirism to Islam. Allahuakbar. God is the greatest of all.

Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".

malik wrote:
Our family life is happier and our children are not yobs out of control, our sisters wear hijab and dont get pregnant as teenagers.

How many Muslims live in your area?

but the real problem is within muslim communities in the uk and world-wide, why does back-ward cultures have to interfere within certain communities.
i am saying this because i am a muslim and am annoyed with these cultures (honour-killings, forced marriages, mis-understanding and rebelious teens who hav turned away because no one is making these communities aware of how serios these issues are)
the kaffir media feeds on these negative aspects in muslim communities----why dont we stand-up to them, by becoming the best possible representatives?

Everyone has to work on themselves.

It is easy to focus on others and wonder why THEY don't measure up. But if everyone works on themselves, that will automatically be solved.

Remember, when you point one finger at others, you are pointing three at yourself.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
Everyone has to work on themselves.
It is easy to focus on others and wonder why THEY don't measure up. But if everyone works on themselves, that will automatically be solved.

Inherent contradiction - work on yourselves is the advice given to others! So the one offering isn't working on himself, he is working on others! Shows the fallacy of such shallow statements!

And the fantasy fairy story, once upon a time... if eveyone works on themselves, things will AUTOMATICALLY be solved! ...and they all lived happily ever after...

malik wrote:
4th of July 2010

Almighty God's curse be on Americans who hate muslims, invade their lands, and kill and torture innocent people. Ameen.

Muslims are already the most thriving religious group in the West. Which other community is happening as much as we are. Soon muslims will dominate EU and US. Despite the stupid plans of kafir against muslims, we are better than them in morality and in piety. Our family life is happier and our children are not yobs out of control, our sisters wear hijab and dont get pregnant as teenagers. Media does it best to make muslims look evil but thats expected from kafir media. Satan flows through kafir media, such as BBC and CNN. There the Demon is busy demonizing muslims. But Allah is helping muslims to thrive and spread. Islam is growing very rapidly in Britian and USA. France Germany and rest of Europe now has millions of muslims living successful lives. Thousands of kafirs are converting to Islam. This is a miracle of Allah, that despite 9/11, so many westerners are turning from kafirism to Islam. Allahuakbar. God is the greatest of all.


'Sup Iran

You're also missing out on the armada in the seas close to Iran too.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

where have i been? i only knew about iraq and afghanistan. what are they doing in the other countries?? :/

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
where have i been? i only knew about iraq and afghanistan. what are they doing in the other countries?? :/

"Humanitarian Missions"

I'm confused. Why is this question asked as though it's a thought experiment?

Muslim communities in the UK aren't a hypothetical :S, it's actually happened/happening.

Should the question not be "HAVE the Muslim community thrived in the UK?"?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

I was thinking about the future there. What does it hold?

Analysing where we have got to is also an important thing though.

On the future there are multiple issues and I guess the people who vote will choose the issues that they see most and extrapolate from there.

There is the issue of intolerance from outside, instigation from groups like the EDL.
There is intolerance from the inside, maybe groups with agendas and money winning out over what the actual past tradition was.
There is also the danger of tolerance (or the want of it) leading to assimilation where each generation can lose its way because it simple wants to fit in.

Yes, it is a sort of star gazing, but I just wanted to get a feel over how positive or negative people feel about the prospects of the Muslim community in the UK.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

|It is extremely shallow to consider BNP or EDL as the threat - it's like looking at symptoms and not the causes.

Such groups exist, as they have been given the green light from the establishment, the political elite, to attack Islam.

One simply needs to read their comments and policies over recent years to notice that they, like their predecessors historically, have initiated a war on Islam globally and locally. Promotion of a British Islam, British Muslims who follow British Islam, attempts to divide Muslims, downplay their grievances, force them to integrate...

It's little more than naive to think that BNP or EDL is the problem - if they were, legislation could be passed to ban them overnight - as what happened with the various manifestations of group like Muhajiroun. But it will not happen...

That is why the EDL are not in the question. People are free to choose whatever concerns they have close to their hearts when answering or discussing this issue.

Tolerance in my mind is a greater danger than intolerance - the Muslim community in the UK is not the best it can be, mainly because many the people who came over were from extremely poor backgrounds or people who were forced to migrate for other reasons and this creates a situation where Muslims are not as well verses in Islam as they should be.

This can lead to situations where young Muslims are ashamed to be associated with islam (The guardian's look back at the July the 7 bombings seems to indicate this too, that there was an especially large amount of people then who were ashamed to be associated wit and as Muslims) and this creates a situation where the Muslim community loses its way even more as the next generation are more open to ideologies other than Islam and eventually some get caught in the trap.

Every single step a person takes has meaning and eventually people go too far, or get "encouraged" by others... first "you don't need to dress like that.. you dont have to do it the way we do, but just this small change" next "you don't have to drink... just come to the pub with us" followed by "only one small drink, its not going to hurt" (or even "you do not have to commit zina... but its normal to date... you dont want to be a freak do you?" and that one will lead to obvious things because... well humans would not still be here if one thing never lead to another).

Eventually a set of small (or large) compromises leads to something that turns into a brick wall and people cannot see a way back. More, because it was all small steps, man will not even see how they got to where they did and are of the opinion "I did nothing wrong, I can't help who I am!" and blame Islam.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

-- the Muslim community in the UK is not the best it can be, mainly because many the people who came over were from extremely poor backgrounds or people who were forced to migrate for other reasons and this creates a situation where Muslims are not as well verses in Islam as they should be.--

Some of the craziest stuff can be found on this site!

If you´re poor or are forced to migrate then you´re islam is gonna be pretty dumb! Yep, interesting logic when one considers most of the companions who were poor or who had to migrate!!!

The kind of nonsense you get when looking at concrete for too long!

Anonymous1 wrote:
BNP or EDL...

Such groups exist, as they have been given the green light from the establishment, the political elite, to attack Islam.


Whereas anyone who knew anything would be clear the BNP and EDL are NF franchises or splinters seeking to replace the establishment with an intolerant one, so far with negligible success largely because most people aren't surrounded by jihadis. If Muslims agreed with you the EDL and BNP would either represent obvious counterpositions or more likely the mainstream politicians would recognise looming civil chaos and react more sensitively. In any event your version isn't the case and British society rejects that sort of intolerance wholeheartedly. You make it that bit harder.

If you´re poor or are forced to migrate then you´re islam is gonna be pretty dumb! Yep, interesting logic when one considers most of the companions who were poor or who had to migrate!!!

The companions who were poor or/and had to migrate had the best of teachers with them.

The people who came to this country in such conditions spent 12 hour or longer shifts working in cotton mills.

There is a big difference in circumstance and action there.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Joie wrote:
Anonymous1 wrote:
BNP or EDL...

Such groups exist, as they have been given the green light from the establishment, the political elite, to attack Islam.


Whereas anyone who knew anything would be clear the BNP and EDL are NF franchises or splinters seeking to replace the establishment with an intolerant one, so far with negligible success largely because most people aren't surrounded by jihadis. If Muslims agreed with you the EDL and BNP would either represent obvious counterpositions or more likely the mainstream politicians would recognise looming civil chaos and react more sensitively. In any event your version isn't the case and British society rejects that sort of intolerance wholeheartedly. You make it that bit harder.

Yes dig your head in the sand... ignore all the comments of the establishment... people like you are part of the problem as you have no analysis and encourage no thought...´visible in much of your posts...

oh yes, as opposed to "its a problem of the kuffar capitalist system. they are makling our iman weak by being dirty capitalists!" - I will stick to my own ideas thank you very much.

You are entitled to your view that the BNP and the EDL etc are establishment groups created to cause trouble, but you have not presented any proof that it is so - which by the by is the case with the majority of your assertions.

Blind conjecture without any proof, but you are entitled to that view.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Anonymous1 wrote:
BNP or EDL...

Anonymous1 wrote:
people like you are part of the problem as you have no analysis and encourage no thought...´visible in much of your posts...

I guess I could do more to rail against the EDL here on The Revival, maybe you got me.

You wrote:

If you´re poor or are forced to migrate then you´re islam is gonna be pretty dumb! Yep, interesting logic when one considers most of the companions who were poor or who had to migrate!!!

The companions who were poor or/and had to migrate had the best of teachers with them.

The people who came to this country in such conditions spent 12 hour or longer shifts working in cotton mills.

There is a big difference in circumstance and action there.

LOL

So now the argument changes once you get caught out - poor people/migrants were the problem - but they're ok so long as there is the best teacher with them!

You should admit your argument is bogus - the issues has nothing to do with poor people or migration - the issue is what ideas do they carry in the first place. If they are secularists like you spouting kufr ideologies they will cause confusion whether they are migrants of BritishHinduMuslims living all their lives in one place.

If however they have the right ideas like the millenium or so of Muslims, whereever they go they will carry Islam and win over societies to their ideas and not adopt kufr iddentities. They will be able to think profoundly about problems and consider more deeper and profound solutions rather than shallow knee jerk reactions of sending sticky plasters to protect people against bullets!

You wrote:
oh yes, as opposed to "its a problem of the kuffar capitalist system. they are makling our iman weak by being dirty capitalists!" - I will stick to my own ideas thank you very much.

You are entitled to your view that the BNP and the EDL etc are establishment groups created to cause trouble, but you have not presented any proof that it is so - which by the by is the case with the majority of your assertions.

Blind conjecture without any proof, but you are entitled to that view.

Yep - create straw man arguments that you can't even refute! LOL Disparaging remarks don't constitute a refutation however much you think they do! You need to study how to discuss and argue as you totally lack the skill!

Noone has argued BNP and EDL are establishment groups - the argument if you actually bother to read it rather than use your wonderful "eagle eye" that catches very little, is that they are a social response to the establishment agenda.

BNP was a racist group - the establishment don't allow racism through policy and legislation. However they do allow and even encourage Islam to be attacked thus the BNP have a green light to attack Islam safe from policy or legislation (which does not oppose them!). Likewise EDL.

Your approach is that of govt lackeys - never attack the govt - attack Muslim groups and individuals!

Previous posters appear correct - you are no doubt a front for govt thinking and funds out there to push BritishIslam down people's throats! Fear Allah!

Anonymous1 wrote:
Previous posters appear correct - you are no doubt a front for govt thinking and funds out there to push BritishIslam down people's throats! Fear Allah!

"No doubt"? that requires evidence.

Provide it. Financial stuff generally leaves behind it a paper trail. Be a Muslim just this once and stand up the required standards.

Or are you once again being economical with truth?

After all it is your way to make stuff up when needed, to feel disgusted when proven wrong and to reject the qur'an and sunnah when it does not suit you. Fear Allah!

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
Anonymous1 wrote:
Previous posters appear correct - you are no doubt a front for govt thinking and funds out there to push BritishIslam down people's throats! Fear Allah!

"No doubt"? that requires evidence.

Provide it. Financial stuff generally leaves behind it a paper trail. Be a Muslim just this once and stand up the required standards.

Or are you once again being economical with truth?

After all it is your way to make stuff up when needed, to feel disgusted when proven wrong and to reject the qur'an and sunnah when it does not suit you. Fear Allah!

Out of the two possibilities the above is the most reasonable probability and I have little or no doubt of its correctness.

The alternative possibility is that you are pushing BritishIslam down our throats for free - which would imply you are so dumb and shallow and fall into the camp of people like Gadaffi et al who believe in similar kufr ideologies like socialism are compatible with Islam and reject inherent aspects of Islam like Sunnah!

I prefer to give you benefit of the doubt and think that you have a little intelligence and have taken govt money to push their warped ideology and agenda - but if you prefer to think of yourselves as a Gadaffi fair enough... Smile

Anonymous1 wrote:
So now the argument changes once you get caught out - poor people/migrants were the problem - but they're ok so long as there is the best teacher with them!

Does one notice another double standard? A general statement without an exception being mentioned? Or is it ok for you to do that but woe betide anyone else from doing it! LOL

Kufr, lies and hypocrisy always get caught out! It's always requires a little time for such people to trip over their own assertions!

Anonymous1 wrote:
Kufr, lies and hypocrisy always get caught out! It's always requires a little time for such people to trip over their own assertions!

I agree. You have been caught out and left hanging.

you have which you stick to, and outside that you will reject the qur'an and sunnah when it does not say what you want it to say.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Anonymous1 wrote:
Out of the two possibilities the above is the most reasonable probability and I have little or no doubt of its correctness.

The alternative possibility is that you are pushing BritishIslam down our throats for free - which would imply you are so dumb and shallow and fall into the camp of people like Gadaffi et al who believe in similar kufr ideologies like socialism are compatible with Islam and reject inherent aspects of Islam like Sunnah!

I prefer to give you benefit of the doubt and think that you have a little intelligence and have taken govt money to push their warped ideology and agenda - but if you prefer to think of yourselves as a Gadaffi fair enough... Smile

erm... you still require this thing called evidence.

Do you expect to stand in an islamic court and charge someone with treason with the proof "he refuted all my arguments and showed me to be a mug. I have no evidence, but surely he must be paid. waaah, I want my mummy."?

Would you expect such evidence to hold sway?

It is funny how you show mock affront and disgust when you have been refuted. Arrogance. Remind me, what is the hadith about arrogance? and this time, please do not additional words to your translation which you are wont to do in order to twist materials.

Go and learn Islam from a teacher. It may benefit you.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
Anonymous1 wrote:
Kufr, lies and hypocrisy always get caught out! It's always requires a little time for such people to trip over their own assertions!

I agree. You have been caught out and left hanging.

you have which you stick to, and outside that you will reject the qur'an and sunnah when it does not say what you want it to say.

The Quran and sunnah interestingly do not contain fabrications from your Bible that you choose to slip in - you didn't expect to be caught out did you?

Or do you think sunnah is a mass of fabrications? You do indeed follow a strange religion!

The religion of the British govt... the evidence for it is strewn across this site! Primarily, WE ARE BRITISH MUSLIMS, is plastered even on your most recent magazine - which mug would push that agenda if he was not paid? You appear to be arguing you are that foolish that you would sell out Islam and cut ties with the Muslim ummah to be Brtish stooges! LOL I'll still give you benefit of the doubt and say you're doing it for the money!

You can say what you like about me, and me being a lousy muslim appreciates it as it will be cashed in on the day of judgement making it ever so slightly more likely I wll get into paradise. Kerchingggg.

I am not the one that added the word Political into a hadith when it was not there. I am not the one that decided that dalaalah was a term too complicated to understand and decided to replace it with kufr. I am not the one that added the word "destined" into a hadith in order to pretend it did not refute my argument.

You are also the one that brought up your fantasy of sleeping with your own parents, saying it would be allowed if it was forced upon you (here is a question, why would you trust someone to spare your life if they are forcing this despicable act upon you? why are you so readily willing to trust such a person? or is it all in your fantasy?) You are the one that was caught out leaving out information that was not convenient to your argument. You are the one that has refused to answer questions in a straightforward manner while at the same time demanding that others do and do so on a point by point basis.

You can believe what you like, but things require evidence. From the qur'an and sunnah on issues of religion - which your views don't always correlate with. Or even proof from the real world when it comes to allegations of actions and once again you are found short of evidence.

Do you still think that this is you doing da'wah, or do your feel your pride has been stung and want revenge? You do not need to answer this question (because you rarely do answer any questions asked ever), but think about it - if you really are "for real" instead of a caricature, you should think about that for a second and question what your "da'wah" entails - apart from making utterances which lead to kufr for yourself.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
You can say what you like about me, and me being a lousy muslim appreciates it as it will be cashed in on the day of judgement making it ever so slightly more likely I wll get into paradise. Kerchingggg.

You need to differentiate between your kufr concepts which I am critiquing and you personally. Criticising your corrupt ideas is called commanding good and forbidding evil as you are propagating kufr - not even views which have ijtihad. One cannot say we can pray 2.5 times a day and provide evidence for it fro the rate of zakat. You are advocating kufr socio-political bonds and bring evidences for names or family bonds or geographical origins as proof which is incorrect. Correct your ideas and you won't be labelled as carrying kufr ideologies - advocate kufr ideologies and you will be criticised. Whinging to Allah will result in further punishment - and not accumulation of other's rewards as you confuse the subject matters once again! As I keep saying, study Islam rather than sloganise it!

You wrote:
I am not the one that added the word Political into a hadith when it was not there. I am not the one that decided that dalaalah was a term too complicated to understand and decided to replace it with kufr. I am not the one that added the word "destined" into a hadith in order to pretend it did not refute my argument.

LOL For someone who dones not know that the word jama'ah means political community, you want to replace it with what it does not mean - community! What a joke! Another piece of nonsense and fabrication against the prophet(saw) - fear Allah about what you attribute to the Prophet - he did not talk about group or community - he referred to political community that has as its leader an imam or caliph. Communities or groups do not have imam as their leader!

You wrote:
You are also the one that brought up your fantasy of sleeping with your own parents, saying it would be allowed if it was forced upon you (here is a question, why would you trust someone to spare your life if they are forcing this despicable act upon you? why are you so readily willing to trust such a person? or is it all in your fantasy?)

You do not even understand the principle of necessity where Allah permits haram or kufr to be done! Go and study the books of fiqh as you are clearly ignorant of this principle! And if you are fantasising about sleeping with your parents, I suggest you don't. And if you've done it, do tawbah! We Muslims don't do thinkgs like that!

You wrote:
You can believe what you like, but things require evidence. From the qur'an and sunnah on issues of religion - which your views don't correlate with. Or even proof from the real world when it comes to allegations of actions and once again you are found short of evidence.

You should follow this principle when you argue for democracy, or majority opinions, or BritishIslam amongst other kufr ideological nonsense. Bring your evidence - and no, fabricated hadiths are not evidence.

You wrote:
Do you still think that this is you doing da'wah, or do your feel your pride has been stung and want revenge? You do not need to answer this question (because you rarely do answer any questions asked ever), but think about it - if you really are "for real" instead of a caricature, you should think about that for a second and question what your "da'wah" entails - apart from making utterances which lead to kufr for yourself.

Nope - it is not dawa. It is commanding good, and forbidding evil. You appear ignorant of what I am even doing. Are you really a Muslim or a civil servant? If you want to pretend you are a Muslim, at least have some understanding of Islam - otherwise your propaganda efforts will have no chance of success - not that Muslims are stupid enough to fall for your attacks on Islam - we've seen your track record around the world and what you've been upto... once bitten, twice shy!

You do not even understand the principle of necessity where Allah permits haram or kufr to be done!

I understand it completely. I am just pointing out the flaws in your fantasy situation. If that is what floats your boat... I doubt you will find a willing accomplice though. (I however probably should not brought up this fantasy of yours though. I let it die the first time you fantasised about it publicly and should have left it burried.)

You need to differentiate between your kufr concepts which I am critiquing and you personally.

and you need to realise what kufr is and what isn't. You cannot simply claim something to be kufr for it to be kufr. We have the qur'an and sunnah for such things. You are not God and cannot suddenly make something kufr or halaal as you please.

You claim things to be kufr ideologies. without providing the evidence.

and no, I do not differentiate between you are your ideas. I see them as one and the same and find the whole package despicable.

I will not make any academic differentiation just for the sake of argument or debate - I say how I feel things are instead of being two faced or needing of an argument in order to find my place in the world.

You can be as disingenious as you like, but I will be me, warts and all. I am and can be a despicable person, I will not deny that.But I am not the one that has been caught rejecting verses from the qur'an and adding words to ahadith to suit my argument (and then you had the nerve to suggest that I was fabricating! Shows what a guilty conscience can do).

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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