salaam
just when u thought the niqab debate was dieing down.... we have a father to thank who demands his daughter is allowed to wear the niqab at school...
some ppl are just stupid....
they're trying to ban niqab in public and this guy expects school to let his daughter to wear it in school!!!!!! and now obviously media will latch on to this story and the debate will be ban niqabs, jilbaabs, hijabs in school....
why do muslims have to take it too far?????????
you wanna wear niqab then dont go to that school. they dont have to let you wear it. there are no special rules for muslims. 99% of muslims are ok without it...but now we have these 'super muslims' who make life a pain for the rest of us...
this is the shabina begum saga all again but this time its worse, and unecessary... but no doubt muslims will defend them COS THEY'RE MUSLIMS, HUMAN RIGHTS AN DALL THAT MALARKI!!!
but its Islam and Muslims that get abused and insulted on the way...
arghhhhhhhhh!!!!!
[b]Schoolgirl Revives UK Veil Debate[/b]
IslamOnline.net & Newspapers
Britain's heated debate over face-veil is crawling back into the limelight with a Muslim father seeking a court review for a school's decision to ban his kid from covering her face, a case that is lacking support from fellow Muslims, the Daily Mail reported on Tuesday, January 23.
"The school feels it would be inappropriate to allow the veil because it could bring difficulties interacting with the girl," said a source close to the school.
The Pakistani-born father of the 12-year-old pupil has resorted to the High Court in London to sue the school in the Buckinghamshire County.
Three elder sisters of the girl used to attend the same school wearing the face-veil, albeit under a different headmaster.
Muslims students, the majority of the school's students, are allowed to wear hijab.
The Buckinghamshire Council responsible for the county's schools is reluctant to back the school in the legal battle.
"With 250 other schools in the area and severe cuts to the social care budget, it would be inappropriate to spend taxpayers' money on this," said a council source.
The face-veil debate was thrust into the spotlight after former foreign secretary and incumbent leader of the House of Common Jack Straw revealed asking Muslim women visiting his constituency office to show their faces.
Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has since described veil as a "mark of separation," was reportedly mulling a face-veil ban in public institutions, including schools.
Aishah Azmi, a 24-year-old Muslim teacher in Headfield Church of England junior school in Dewsbury, was recently sacked over covering her face.
The young woman had expressed willingness to remove her veil in front of children - but not when male colleagues were present.
Unnecessary
Conservative MP Paul Goodman has criticized Buckinghamshire Council's stance.
"I believe that the Department for Education and Buckinghamshire County Council should support the school in principle, and should work together to help fund this court case," he said.
The Muslim community in southeastern county of England said the case had blown out of proportion.
"Muslims should be able to practice whatever they want within the constraints of the law," Mohammed Khaliel, a local community leader, told The Mail.
"But within the large Muslim community in the town, nearly 20,000 people, there is surprise about this."
Local Muslims say they do not prefer their girls wear the face-veil, though they have every right to do so.
"The father involved is well-respected, and is a good Muslim, but his is the only family that wants their daughter to wear this veil to school," Khaliel averred.
The Muslim Council of Britain also weighed in the case, saying the face-veil is unnecessary in schools, according to the newspaper.
The Muslim umbrella body said the Buckinghamshire school's policy of allowing the hijab is "quite sufficient to meet Islamic requirements".
Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, not a religious symbol displaying one’s affiliations.
As for the face veil, the majority of Muslim scholars believe that a woman is not obliged to cover her face or hands.
Scholars, however, believe that it is up to women to decide whether to take on the veil.
Schools should accommodate religious practises such as a headscarf, but not the covered face.
The MCB have stated it well.
Let's hope that Ed's fears go unfounded.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
this thread shud b edited as hate mongers revive veil debate. its the media who r drawing undue attention to the story no one else.
Ed ur damn patronising and offensive i dont see why i shud behave respectfully with you and carry on with the english stiff upper lip, im sick of some of your comments. yes we all know ur against the niqab and u have a right to be against it. What ive got a major problem with is the way u degrade muslims who choose to take a different stance from u, i.e since when does wearing a niqab or a father wanting his daughter to wear a niqab make them a "super muslim"?
I'm not a super muslim but i'm sure God will look upon me wearing a niqab as a good thing rather than something that is an embarrassment to my fellow muslims. I dont care what my fellow muslims think anymore coz ive come to realise many of them are very quick to side with non muslims merely to not be seen as extremists. Who gives a tuppence for such cowardly ppl not me.
ive no probs if anybody wants to wear a niqab... just follow the rules here. everyone else does...at school... just follow school uniform policy...dont expect special treatment.... if u feel u have to wear it then go to a school that allows it....and stop feeling sorry for yourself and say the school and everyone hates islam and muslims... as its this mentality that damages Islam and the Muslims here.
ive not having a go at you but ppl who get upset when they dont get special treatment...u know one rule for everyone else...and one for the super strict muslims... this breeds islamophobia.
what sickens me is when certain ppl say OH MUSLIMS SIDE WITH THE NON MUSLIMS...SO THEY ARE NOT SEEN AS EXTREMISTS!!!THEY ARE COWARDS!!!! what a load of rollocks!!!!
just because it disagrees with your view it doesnt mean i support non muslims.... its not about muslim side v non muslim side... that is just immature...ARRRGGHHH!!!
some ppl think you HAVE to support muslims ALL THE TIME otherwise you're a traitor... again rollocks!!!these ppl live in their own world...not the real world.
u dont like my views , no problem.
why do hijabis expect special treatment then, they should follow the school uniform too right? if they feel they have to wear it, maybe they should go to a school that allows it... etc etc...
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
true... almost all schools allow this... and alot of muslim sisters wear it...is compulsory according to ALL muslims..so no probs there...
niqab...minority wear it, minority see it as compulsory...plus niqab at school can cause problems, hatred, bullying etc....
WHY do almost all schools allow the hijaab? you think a few decades ago it wasn't as big a deal as the niqab is today? people made a fuss out of it, demanded the right of their child to wear her religious gear to school, and thats how it gradually became more accepted. just because there aren't that many school-going niqabis out there doesn't mean their religious rights shouldn't be recognised. though YOU may not consider it compulsory, the fact is most of the girls who wear it DO consider it compulsory, and this is a widely accepted scholarly opinion, it may be a minority opinion in the UK but it certainly isn't a minority opinion worldwide. and as an Ummah we dont just count the opinions of british scholars alone. regardless of whether you consider it compulsory or not, it is a sunnah, the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w) chose to wear the veil and anyone who follows in their footsteps should be applauded, not labeled 'extreme' or 'strict'. :?
and you can't be serious about the bullying issue? kids may get bullied because they wear glasses, non-designer clothes, the sikh turban, the hijab, and yes maybe the niqab too. that doesn't mean they all have to take off their turbans or hijaabs, so why should the niqaab be any different? the bully is the problem, not the victim for goodness sake.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
the school i went to there were just two niqabies back then i even thght they were strange looking, but i also thght free country there are goths in my school gals with skirts that leave little to the imagination so i thgt big deal. the headmaster thght same coz he allowed it. they never got bullied at school as far as i knew. the white kids didnt even bat an eye lid when they walked past, i would suggest its all down to "education". The students at my school can't be the only ones who were open to "education" on islam. then again with all the misinformation in the media and fear factor you'd think that was the case.
The girl you're speaking about ,in the article it says the father protested coz the school allowed his other daughters to wear the niqab and on transition to a new headmaster things changed. i can understand why he'd be miffed he sees it as double standards, its got nothing to do with him being a "super" muslim.
However at the same time i dont expect public schools to accomodate niqabies because i know these institutions are secular at the core. it's like expecting a muslim school to be tolerant of girls coming in to school wearing revealing clothes, it's asking to much. i agree if the schools uniform isn't accepting of the niqab then parents should find alternative public schools or send them to islamic ones where it is the norm.
Parents who get their kids to wear niqabs usually view islam as a very importantl part of their childs upbringing so it seems kind of contradictory to send the child to a secular school where free mixing is encouraged. it goes entirely against the parents values, and the childrens values doesn;t it?
I think it's at odds. If i felt that strongly my kids would be in an islamic school, same sex school, or homeschooled not put in a public school.
mm Dust u know the thing about hijab i think the French banned it coz they saw it as infringing upon the french identity. they want to retain their traditional culture and values islam was and is a threat to it. They are a vastly christian/secular country and wish to remain like that. The hijab symbolises everything contradictory to that. end of the day it;s their country they can do as they please. I mean would KSA change their islamic laws to accomodate non muslim values no. Instead they build fortresses and compounds where non muslims can live and entertain as they would back home.
Thats how i think the uk is heading. they have this new attitude now we are secular, most of us follow no religion live like us dress like us or get out. Thats how i feel. ppl may defend British values to the death. i do love my country i was born here, there are many great aspects about it, but that's just how i feel the media and public opinion has turned.
school children should not be allowed to wear the niqab. end of.
its totally different to headscarf.
this covers your face.
school uniform needs to be respected...
if you're so in to parda, then you shouldnt send your daughter to a mixed school, send her to a single sex or islamic school.
wearing niqab in islamic/muslim countries and non muslim countries are two different things. by saying the wives of the prophet wore it... is just trying to mislead ppl.
we're talking about niqab in school here not in general... so stop trying to emotionally blackmail and misguide ppl...
this school in question from 100's pf school children only ONE father insists his daughter wears niqab...so why should school change its policies, rules, codes for ONE student.... stupid!!!!
niqab in non muslim country - especially at school- contradicts what niqab is all about.... it changes from modesty, chastity to everyone staring at you, analysing you, picking on you, bullying you etc...where in muslim countries its respected....
ppl stare at u in hijabs too but ur a brother u wouldnt understand. i got more attention from guys than i ever did when i wore the hijab. in fact that was one reason why i decided to wear the niqab. im not saying im a stunner or something but im trying to be honest. as ive already mentioned to the girls it got to the point that i got stalked. moi in a black headscarf and long jilbab got stalked for months. i believe i got less attention when i wore no islamic dress. yet i persisted to wear islamic clothing coz i believed God required it of me.
anyways hijab is neither a part of this secular country as dust already said, yet it has come to be accepted. unfortunately i dont think the niqab will be accepted coz it's seen as something "arab" and totally alien and unnecessary. I can understand why ppl feel that way, even muslims feel that way. i don't expect it to be accepted. but the british didnt have to accept the hijab either did they, or the turban?
that is pretty much the bottom line on the issue. i say good luck to the family.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
btw the argument of us being in a non-muslim country is lame, we can practice our religion to whatever extent we wish as long as it doesn't clash with the law of the land. and are you saying the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w) never wore it? because i don't see how that statement 'misleads' people - it's a fact. how would you know, have you ever been out in a niqaab? i've worn it in a state school with confidence, never once been bullied, and even non-muslim guys know to treat a niqaabi with respect.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I have put my daughters name down for a single sex school. at the mo' she's 2!!!!! Inshallah in 2008, she'll be at a mix private school, until she goes into the juniors. We're going to find it difficult to finance it, but inshallah we're going for it.
live and let live!!!!!!!
i agree with dust in that the argument about this being a non muslim country is rather lame considering all the other forms of religious dress that are present all around us?
We're in england now why wear a salwar kameez, a sari, a turban. When in rome do as the romans. so why do we need hijabs we should have our daughters in skirts and fitted tops. the hijab should be banned.
btw shabina begum wasnt fighting for the right to wear the niqab, it was the jilbab. many consider the jilbab a part of the "hijab" covering. most sisters would agree it is if they research upon the topic, altho not all will. I dont think this is a brothers issue. brothers are always discussing womens dress it's about time they got obsessed with their own dress and sense of modesty rather than focusing on what a muslim woman should or shouldn't do to be seen as modest.
same old weak and desperate arguments im afraid... just trying to convince yourself are you and dust?
calllllllllllllllllllllllllllm dowwwwwwwwn where is the love?? :roll:
To be beautiful is to expect nothing in return.
lol, yea Ed - apparently they're so weak you can't bring yourself to address them specifically, the way we have done to yours.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
no Ed something known as a "difference of opinion" exists on the issue of the niqab, kindly do your islamic research before you make silly little arguments.
Or are we not allowed to disagree with you or something?
disagree by all means... but when i do you accuse me of :
1. supporting non muslims
2. coward
3. going against the wives of the prophet!!!
4. western/modern/liberal/stiff upper lip etc...
etc etc..
so who doesnt appreciate difference of opinion...?? mmm...
and Dust i don't refute arguments with people who take offence when someone challenges the idea that we don't need niqab here in UK, and it shouldnt be allowed in schools....
the reality is you two are an absolute massive minority in the UK... thats why it doesnt bother me if u disagree... its cool.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
so what if we're a minority what's your point exactly?We're not a minority in gods eyes. The majority are not always in the "right" you know. u seem to have this full sense of confidence that ur view is the only correct view in islam, and validate it with the supposed "majority" who follow ur view in the uk?
Well according to the poll on so called radical muslims 75% of muslims in the uk think muslim women should wear the veil. I guess the majority are radicals now. Majority or minority it doesn't bother me. You should adhere to something coz you truly believe in it not coz of the "numbers" or lack of that agree with you.
I truly don't care about the "advices" of muslim organisations and politicians i pay more heed to the traditional ulema who have made it their life to study the religion.
This debate is useless you've created so many threads on the niqab, there's really no need. We all know ur vehemently against the niqab and that's fine lets leave it at that it's getting such a bore hearing the same arguments again and again.
i gotta side with the sisters on this one even tho I don't believe this is a debate on the rulings behind the niqab in Islam.
the debate here in my opinion is..
how one school headmaster allows the niqab in schools, and how another doesn't.
i see one as tolerant to other faiths, and the other who is ignorant.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
the sisters arguments are just based on ego.
niqabis think they are better and superior
so they should have special rules...
1 chap wants his daughter to wear niqab at school , so they shud change the rules:-) what a joke... why doesnt he send em to the free, girls only dar ul ulooms
listening to the 2 sisters here , i can understand now why 95% of non muslims hate niqabis and why alot of muslims distance themselves from them.... its agree to them or you are a weak muslim, who loves the kufaar, we dont care about anyone else, we are right, we follow allah.... we want special treatment...blah blah...blah....
ok sisters you win , i lose.... you're right, i'm wrong...
:!:
[b][color=indigo]^^^ :o
Ed, you’re going a lil OTT now i think you should calm down and refrain from personal insults. If you can’t give a decent reply back then just don’t reply at all and you just cannot say niqaabies classify themselves as superior muslims or think they're better than anyone else!!! :roll:
[/color][/b]
That is ignorant Ed, fine enough you don't think it should be worn in UK but throwing insults like that is very low. You can put your points across in a more effective manner, that post just sounded like a rant.
so now im arrogant just coz of a piece of cloth i wear? if i removed the niqab tomorrow i would no longer be better than the rest in your eyes?
Ed that's a really upsetting comment i don't know what to say. i think that's just the impression you have of niqabies when u see them u just think oh heres another one shoving her religion in my face, making out shes better than the rest of us. They're ur own inner thghts not anything i'm actually doing or saying to appear holier than you.
I certainly dont think im better than anyone else if i ever felt the niqab was making me go in that direction id remove it gladly.
I'm sorry for any ill remarks i made towards you
Ed, all you've done with that post is prove my point - u don't argue your point, u resort to insults. and u clearly dont read wot i write either, just quote one place where i've said that niqaabis are superior to non-niqaabis. for the tenth time, i don't even follow the opinion that its waajib, and i'm still a 'part-time' niqaabi myself - i only wear it when i feel the need. it's just some weird insecurity you have that niqaabis look down on everyone else, to my knowledge no niqaabi has ever made condescending remarks on this forum.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
i have nothing else to say as my views are offending alot of you.
end of discussion from me.
salaam
your views are not at all offensive, its just the way you choose to express them.
wa3laykum salaam.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Actually I would like yopu to explain your views without personal insults.
Think of it as an exercise in writing.
I cannot remember the last time you actually made a real argument on any topic. It has been only insults with no fabric, no proofs no nothing for months now.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
one word answer for your post that which i cant say:-)
my arguments are not appreciated here thats why i don't bother going in to detail.
if you disagree with Muslims here you get accused of everything under the sun.
i don't do personal insults.
i respond to certain comments made.
apparently only my comments are 'personal attacks'.
chou!
Pages