Hate the sin or the sinner?

TPOS —

Are you supposed to just hate the sin or the sinner too?

Is it different for different sins?

Forum

You — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 - 00:55

I doubt it is completely possible to only hate the sin.. and sometimes you may be extremely attracted to the sin.

I think someone mentioned in another topic about being "holier than thou" that if you striggle to stay on the straight and narrow and it takes a lot out of you, you could resent those that don't put the same effort in (even if it may be unhealthy).

TPOS — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 - 01:24

oh, and is it alright to be indifferent?
Like you know its a sin, you're against it taking place but you just don't say or "feel" anything about it? if you get what i mean.

TPOS — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 - 10:57

from tribune:
shaykh hamza yusuf says we should hate the sin not the sinner
02:52:50 Noor - and remember the story about the drinker
02:53:03 Noor - the sahaba were about to curse him and the Prophet said no
02:53:17 Noor - he loves Allah and his rasul

and we agreed, hate takes up too much effort and was not worth it.

Also i said that i don't hate a sinner "unless it affects me". Like if something was to happen to me then it would be a personal thing and i would have a reason to hate them but otherwise why hate?

But i've been thinking about it and that's not true.

For example i hate murderers etc

But i don't hate gays or generally people who have haraam relationships, people who drink etc

I was trying to explain to a non-muslims that although i'm against a person actually being gay and believe it is wrong, i don't actually treat that person any different [actually i don't know any gay people but you know, if i dii...] and like i wouldn't like hold it against them.

She couldn't understand it. she was just like "so you admit theres nothing wrong with being gay" :| was/am i in the wrong for thinking like this? does it make sense to think like this?

and thats what i mean about sometimes hating both the sin and the sinner - like in situations like murderer etc.

The Lamp — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 - 15:49

Define: being gay. A couple of months back, actually ages back, Yaqub answered this spot on.
Having gay thoughts isn't haram, so long as you control them. Doing that has it's own reward.

TheDivineExsistence — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 - 17:03

Salam 🙂

I dont think we have the right to 'hate' somebody no matter what they have done, because Allah SWT states that He forgives and shows love and mercy to anybody that seeks forgivness for any sin...... so if our Creator can love a sinner, then really we have no righ to...

and hate only leads to self_destruction, and takes us further away from our deen...

😃

TPOS — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 - 09:32

[quote=TheDivineExsistence]Salam 🙂

I dont think we have the right to 'hate' somebody no matter what they have done, because Allah SWT states that He forgives and shows love and mercy to anybody that seeks forgivness for any sin...... so if our Creator can love a sinner, then really we have no righ to...

and hate only leads to self_destruction, and takes us further away from our deen...

:D[/quote]

When more than one person is affected its easier said than done!

so yeah anybody else?
Does it make a difference if the sinner isn't Muslim - cuz then they don't love the Prophet ﷺ and Allah swt [talking about what noor said]

You — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 - 10:24

God still created them. They can still be guided and they will still have some good in them.

and judgement is in the hands of Allah (swt).

So no, I dont think you can simple hate people if they are not Muslims - you can wish they were guided, try your bit etc.

LookingToSee — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 - 22:00

havent commented coz i dont know what to think/make of it. I need to think about it but i need to graspe the context first and im finding it quite difficult...

I wouldnt befriend a homosexual person. But i wouldnt spit at them in the bus either. I would always hate the sin, in any situation.

Not the sinner, except if he knows he's sinning and keeps on doing it. Or he's just plain evil (sar cough cough kozy cough cough)

TPOS — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 - 12:54

[quote=Ocean]
May be the idea is NOT to hate anything but to counter it or replace it with what YOU believe is an Islamically legal act.[/quote]

?

LookingToSee — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 - 13:16

the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by hating it and feeling that it is wrong] – and that is the weakest of faith”

i think thats what Ocean mean...

Its not just love or hate. you can just not feel anything about the person.

TPOS — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 - 13:52

notice it says "if he cannot"

and thanks i was asking if its ok to feel indifferent too, or atleast i think i did. 🙂

malik — Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 19:23

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Are you supposed to just hate the sin or the sinner too?

Is it different for different sins?[/quote]

you hate both, the crime and the criminal.
you cant punish a sin can you? you send the person to jail.