[size=18]The Islam Debate[/size]
[b]Wednesday, 14 September, 2005, at 2230 BST
BBC Four will debate the issues raised in the film Battle for Islam, screened on 5 Sept[/b]
Zeinab Badawi hosts a discussion programme exploring what the future holds for Islam both in the UK and around the world.
Will militant extremism win? Or are other more peaceful modes of existence possible?
A panel of Islamic experts will scrutinise an optimistic, moderate vision of the future put forward by the writer Ziauddin Sardar in his BBC Two programme Battle for Islam.
In the film, Sardar travels to five Muslim countries: Turkey, Pakistan, Morocco, Indonesia and Malaysia.
He reveals how heads of government, intellectuals and opinion formers are seeking new interpretations of Islam, offering a more tolerant approach to other faiths and cultures, and seeking to disentangle Islam from political ideology.
The discussion will provide context and analysis of the Koran, Islamic traditions, political history and contemporary developments to find out what it is to be Muslim today.
The panellists for The Islam Debate will be:
[b]Ziauddin Sardar[/b], writer and broadcaster
[b]Tariq Ramadan[/b], a leading European Islamic thinker who sparked controversy after being banned from entering the US and France, but not the UK
[b]Nagina Shah[/b], who has not spoken to her family for 14 years after walking away from an arranged marriage
[b]Aftab Malik[/b], who argues traditional Islamic values can overcome extremism
[b]Rime Allaf[/b], a Middle East expert at the international think tank Chatham House.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/battle_for_islam/4226266.stm]BBC[/...
BBC 4 10:30 pm
Debate: Battle for Islam
Zeinab Badawi looks at what the future holds for Islam, both in the UK and around the world. Will militant extremism win? Or are other more peaceful modes of existence possible?
The panel don't look that good, they seem to me that they hold the same opinion. I would love to see a panel with a difference of opinion, that would be a show worth watching.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
Aftab Malik is the only one who seems to stand out.
Here is a quote from an article of his.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/faith_2756.jsp
no one asnswered my previous Q
is aftab malik an author of books?
When did you ask? In a dream? :roll:
LOL
cant remember
i prob did post in my dream
but answer my Q :evil:
Yes he is. (Or at least someone else called Aftab Malik is.)
http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-319/i.html
I thought so!!!!!
I remember reading the broken chain -by him
first islamic book I ever read (and last :oops: )
So, is he a raving modernist liberal?
he chats about the importance of going back to the tradition
learning from teachers not books
iimportance of loving and respecting the prophet
giving non Muslims a positive view of Islam-not perceiving them as "dirty kufars"
he condemns the HT approach
and how importnat it is to be a good role model
my sister is crazy about him-she always quotes from the stuff he has said
Top bloke.
Should get more exposure.
Never heard of him before.
I saw most of it, Wasn't to impress with the Aftab bloke to be honest, but he really couldn't say much and he didn't come out of it too bad considering how poor the show was overall. Ramadan was cool, he always is in this situation, him and hamza are the best in these type of dialogues. I starting to have a bit of hate for that Zia sardar geezer, too think I was on the verge of buying his book at one point, atleast thats £15 saved.
Yeah very poor show, left off from that docu a little while ago. It seem the media only want to showcase the moderates, who then pump up the extreme one, or they showcase the extreme one so the moderate get pump up. Very poor, is this what our tax money going to, so BBC can waste money on these type of shows. :roll:
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
I have to say I don't think much of Tariq Ramadan in terms of his speaking abilities. Certainly he's not deserving of the promotion he gets. Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Zaid Shakir are much better speakers.
Too simplistic in my view. Nothing much stood out.
Aftab Malik was rather incoherent, but this can be put down to his lack of media experience.
There was funny bit when Ziauddin Sardar said that Sharia is not divine, and Tariq Ramadan's literally went like this :shock: .
What rubbish programming.
Load of rubbish. Did I mention it was rubbish?
Soo boring, I wanted to see a fight. That Sardar is a number 1 fool, thinks he can talk about sharia. Tell who is gonna refer to ppl like him when they got issues about islam? all these thinkers delude themselves that in a few years time, after they dead, ppl will say oh wasnt he an amazing thinking an amazing reformist etc. Load of cobblers. Be lucky if someone even remembers who losers like that were.
Why was the hostess saying Moroccon women, it was only one fat lady talking about her views about adapting islam. Silly woman was generalising about moroccon women abt 4 times even though it only showed one moroccon lady talking.
Why did the hostess ask that syed girl what was it that finally made you think I cant live with this type of islam and made you leave your family, when 5 minutes earlier the girl said she thought it was culture not islam that made her run away.For so called modern liberated free thinking woman she is one dopy mare.
I mean if a thick paki like me can see how she generalising abt moroccon women, and ignoring the girl saying it was culture not islam then she cant be all that brite can she?
if they got ppl like this hosting and ppl like that chatting i think we all know its about entertainment. Now thts funny!
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Salaf, while you're here...
What are your specific issues with Tariq R amadan?
Come on, look at the way he always moving his hand when he illustrating a point, but I agree he mumbles at crucial times. But he someone who never loses his cool and always try to explain islam in the way that the questioner will understand. But I personally cannot see any scholar coming out of a programme like this well, It design to portray a certain message and there isn't much u can do.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
Haha! glad i totally forgot to watch it
you should do tv reviews....u'd make a good critic
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
lol, hmm yes im considering a career in dealing with dopes, being a tv critic will keep me bz for a very long time.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
A future molvi dealing in dope?
what is the world coming to!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
dopes: i was referring to dim-witted ppl not some illegal substance.
molvi? moi?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
well u r planning to aint ya?
even if its after uni.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I have nothing personal against Tariq Ramadan I just think that he shouldn't be promoted as Europes leading "Islamic Scholar".
It seems to me that he just comes with simplistic pre-prepared statements much like Irshad Manji and Hizb-ut-Tahrir. Hamza Yusuf comes across as being much more of a scholar in a secular sense than Ramadan even though he isn't. Shaykh Hamza converted while studying comparative religion then trained as a medical assistant after which he studied Islam in various locations. He's not a university scholar but he appears to be more knowledgable than Tariq Ramadan in secular subjects.
Even Zaki Badawi comes across as more intelligent.
I disagree with his promotion as a leading "islamic scholar" in the same way I disagree with Irshad Manji's promotion as anything other than small time journalist and Tv presenter who has converted to secular zionism.
yeh, but i dont want you going around putting the evil eye on me!
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i'm sick of all this islamic civil war stuff.
Why don't yall just challenge the extremists to a game of minigolf - winner takes all.
Whoever looses gets excommunicated and had to convert to the other guys islam.
And while we're at it.
A Message from Dave to Osama bin Laden:
Dear Osama,
How are things? Presently you are costing my government hundreds of billions of dollars to catch. In the mean time you live in a cave and people are getting bombed in search of you. Thus, I think it is in both of our interests to settle this with a game of minigolf - at a date and time of your choosing, and at a course of a neutral party's choosing (such as sweden). If you lose you have to give yourself up and if I lose we have to give up.
There ya go.
Can't argue with that.
I'll even pay for lunch.
Yours Truly,
Dave
he called me and told me to play on his behalf
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
So am I.
I don't think there is one. Its just a way of some western intellectuals convincing themselves that the problems in the world are all to do with ignorant tribesman with AKs and have nothing to do with global capitalism.
Just look at Iraq. The current Iraqi government probably has more "Islamo-Fascists" in it than the resistance. The insurgency is primarily nationalist-baathist orientated with a small minority of foreign fighters. The Iraqi government on the hand is lead by a prime minister whose organisation was throwing acid at unveiled iraqi women in the 70s and 80s. Yet according to these "Islamic Civil War" theorists the war in Iraq is between extremist and moderate islam. Which side is which though?
lol America's biggest problem isn't political islam or chinese communism - they will pass.
America's biggest problem is a small but growing international community that is holding America up to the standards that America dictates, something which is sure to chip away at the legitimacy of American power.
I'd say America's biggest problem is the growing divide between the puritan values of its founders (original founders that is) and the materialist culture thats coming from its coasts.
That's internal.
You're putting too much energy into trying to understand our politicians' use of wedge issues to distract the public.
The voices of the so called "Christian Right" are anything but antimaterialistic. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwal, Ralph Reed and company are much more interested in holding up nationalism and corporate power than creating a "Model of Christian Charity"
Unless they get a tax exemption from it.
The very few that do advocate taking the country back to it's puritanic roots are powerless because by and large they are isolationist and "backwards."
I would think our biggest threat internally from the right is the corporate and special interest strangehold over government and populism from the left. To a certain extent they compliment each other - without the "direct democracy" initiatives of the left during the early 70's, old elitist safeguards like the private committee vote would still be around, which would almost instantly anihilate the special interest grip over house and senate committees.
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