How can the devil make you do things?

TPOS —

How do you explain this to a non-believer?

Do you attempt to explain the nafs?

"Is it magic?"

How does the devil 'get inside you/your mind'?

Any way of making it sound rational? (I don't think so)

Forum

lollywood — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 20:59

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]How do you explain this to a non-believer?

How does the devil 'get inside you/your mind'?

Any way of making it sound rational? (I don't think so)[/quote]

The devil promised Allah that I will try and misguide your nation in all kinds of ways

TPOS — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 21:35

[quote=bilan]CAN it in the physical sense?[/quote]
I'm not sure...well...no.

What I mean is HOW does he do it?
Whether it's magic or whatever (no, I don't think I've ever heard it being referred to as magic) how exactly is it.

Yes, ok he makes us think bad things are good/fun/whatever, but how exactly does he do that?

TPOS — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 22:03

[quote=You]"nafs" means "self".

The infusion of bad ideas and the twisting of feelings and emotions to push you one way or another.[/quote]

Yep, I know - meant the devil can influence the nafs.

Hajjar — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 22:27

i'd say Shaytan makes us think bad acts are good via suggestions. For example if a beautiful woman walked past he might say "go on just have a glance at her, there's no harm you're married anyway"

The trick is to fight back with an argument " one glance will lead to a second and Allah is watching even if my wife is not"

the devil can't make us do anything, he simply suggests things in a clever way. Allah hasn't given shaytan powers to physically make us do anything, its more playing on the mind. That's why we will ultimately be held accountable for our deeds when we meet Allah, not Shaytan (course he will be punished)

Ya'qub — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 23:00

sometimes people use personification of the devil and angels, and we even say Allah (swt) 'Sees' and 'Hears'. But these are just labels to describe certain 'actions' in a way completely different to humans.
Shaitan was a jinn. Now, it is unknown what 'form' (if any).

But that is missing the point entirely (for me, anyway). It shouldn't be about a little red man with horns. And a 'whisper' isn't actually a soundwave, its more a metaphor for the way shaitan can affect us, seemingly from nowhere.

People seem to want to draw pictures in their heads but this isn't right.

TPOS — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 23:27

[quote=Ya'qub]sometimes people use personification of the devil and angels, and we even say Allah (swt) 'Sees' and 'Hears'. But these are just labels to describe certain 'actions' in a way completely different to humans.
Shaitan was a jinn. Now, it is unknown what 'form' (if any).

But that is missing the point entirely (for me, anyway). It shouldn't be about a little red man with horns. And a 'whisper' isn't actually a soundwave, its more a metaphor for the way shaitan can affect us, seemingly from nowhere.

People seem to want to draw pictures in their heads but this isn't right.[/quote]
I like this perspective 🙂

I guess you're right.

So if a non-believer asked you about the devil, would you try and explain? what would you say? Or would you not bother since you know it doesn't sound rational and they won't believe anyway (though they want to understand)

Ya'qub — Thu, 1 Dec 2011 - 23:38

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE][quote=Ya'qub]sometimes people use personification of the devil and angels, and we even say Allah (swt) 'Sees' and 'Hears'. But these are just labels to describe certain 'actions' in a way completely different to humans.
Shaitan was a jinn. Now, it is unknown what 'form' (if any).

But that is missing the point entirely (for me, anyway). It shouldn't be about a little red man with horns. And a 'whisper' isn't actually a soundwave, its more a metaphor for the way shaitan can affect us, seemingly from nowhere.

People seem to want to draw pictures in their heads but this isn't right.[/quote]
I like this perspective 🙂

I guess you're right.

So if a non-believer asked you about the devil, would you try and explain? what would you say? Or would you not bother since you know it doesn't sound rational and they won't believe anyway (though they want to understand)[/quote]
i might start with something like 'as soon as you form any sort of picture in your head, then that is NOT what shaitan is.'

LookingToSee — Fri, 2 Dec 2011 - 19:34

you know...freud... and his ego/id/superego thing? i'd say the nafs is the basic desires for pleasure and doing whatever you want. that might be part of it.

but yeah, if you dont believe in supernatural (And i guess "irrational" stuff) then it'd be hard to explain shaytaam's temptation.

but you could start with the ego thing.

like my nafs makes me want to say the eff word ALL the time. does saying it in my head count?

LookingToSee — Sun, 4 Dec 2011 - 19:22

[quote=Ya'qub]hasn't freud been largely discredited by now? like, modern-day brain scans describing how the brain works much more accurately?[/quote]

i wouldnt know...

but his theory wasnt abt the physical working of the brain but more of the ..urgh..i cant think.. i just did too much further maths..

laila — Tue, 6 Dec 2011 - 11:47

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]How do you explain this to a non-believer?

Do you attempt to explain the nafs?

"Is it magic?"

How does the devil 'get inside you/your mind'?

Any way of making it sound rational? (I don't think so)[/quote]

Ego etc
No magic
Devil not been given power to possess human only whispers
Faith is beyond rational or rather beyond our capabilities to rationalise

Ultimately my belief is the devil only has as much influence on our lives as we allow him wether intentionally or unintentionally Through lack of diligence. As we all know we must always be on our guard against bad and try our hardest to do good. I don't think anyone will be allowed to use him as an excuse on day of judgement that would be too ridiculous then we'd all be exempted from the questioning

LookingToSee — Tue, 6 Dec 2011 - 22:15

+1 @Laila's reply.

no way we can use shaytaan to get outta of giving in to our sinful desires. as boona mohammad puts it. "even He believes in Allah, so what does that say about you?"

side note: dont you feel like your keyboard is being a bit of a haramist when it just wont let you put a caps on Allah's name? myabe its just me...