I was just reading an article about entertainment in islam and I found a few interesting bits along with bits i had heard before...
For some reason I had thought acting etc was considered taboo atleast by the conservative parts of Muslim society, but that article suggests ... well, I will quote a section of the article:
Perhaps because entertainments in the wedding ceremonies were disregarded, Iyaz al-As’arî said: “Why do you not perform any plays as thay had been acted in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (PBUH), I am surprised” (Ibn Majah, Iqama: 163)
Ibn Qutayba says that the desire of entertainment exists in the nature of mankind and that resisting against creation and nature is impossible; he narrates this Hadith as a proof:
“Allah’s Prophet (PBUH) joked so that Muslims would joke with one another and he said to the ones playing sword-shield:” Oh the sons of Arfida go on playing! so that Jews will understand your religion has tolerance.” (Musnad, 6: 116)
When As’ad bin Zurara married his daughter, the Prophet (PBUH), thinking that As’ad bin Zurara liked entertainments, asked whether muganniyas (women singers) playing tambourine and singing had been sent.
Moreover, throwing candy, dates or similar things onto people and their effort to catch them during wedding ceremonies or during circumcision feasts is observed as another kind of entertainment. (Usdu’l-Ghaba, 3:488)
Abdullah bin Abbas, organized a feast for the circumcision of his son and hired actors for the party. (DIA, Dr. Nebi Bozkurt, “Entertainment” section.)
Entertainment tradition by playing tambourine continued in the era of four Caliphs, too. It is narrated that when Hazrat Umar, the 2nd Caliph, realized that the sound of songs and tambourine that he heard was coming from a wedding or a circumcision ceremony, he did not ban it. (Abdurrazzaq as-San’anî, al-Musannaf, 11:5)
A most interesting read IMO.
Surprised that this has had no response. A very good read IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Probably because, as ever, it does not provide any substantiation for those who want to live fun as a lifestyle - these examples show it to be the exception and not the rule. Something you seem good at reversing.
That's the problem when one googles bits and pieces from the internet and doesn't understand the main paradigms in any subject and how all the evidence (consistent/contradictory) fit together to produce a coherent result...
No one actually said or suggested otherwise. This article shows that fun is allowed and that's that.
Actually i don't think the rule bit comes in :/
no one made it a rule not to have fun or not to have...did they?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Is there anyone in the Muslim ummah who does not laugh? Does not spend time with their family? Does not relax? Only an idiot would imply that anyoe would think these activities are not done or permitted in Islam - even the most strictest and serious Salafis laugh, celebrate Eid/Weddings etc
The agenda here is much more broader and sinister - and it needs to be when one wishes to introduce kufr ideas as they cannot do so directly.
What is being championed is a lifestyle, an outlook - one of fun, enjoyment, pleasure... one where people can chill out as much as they want - bringing in the purpose of life from secular democracy to Islam!
This article shows some of the ways that the companions RA, of the Prophet (Saw) relaxed and had fun. ways which some think aren't actually allowed. No one said we should be doing this sort of thing all the time and forget about prayers etc.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Who thinks one cannot relax? Which group says it is haram to have fun, in weddings or celebrations? That's just nonsense!
Most don't know what their obligations are to the political problems going on, let alone what Islam requires they should and should not do (thinking if they have done a few rituals everything is ok!), fun and relaxing seems to take priority - excellent! Far better not to bother posting narrations to tell people what they should be doing and what the Prophet(saw) and his companions were doing throughout Mecca and Medina, post narrations which they don't need to justify lifestyles full of trivia such as football, movies, entertainment... and let's not forget - making as much money as possible!!!
I think you need to read properly instead of scan your eyes over the words.
i said the WAYS which they relaxed.
no i didn't bother reading the last paragraph as you clearly hadn't even read my comment properly so it was probably irrelevant anyway.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
You should read what someone posts - noone has a problem with relaxing in the entire Ummah!!! This whole thread's agenda is to legitimise fun lifestyles, the right to pursuit pleasure in life!!! Disgusting!
You should read what someone posts - noone has a problem with relaxing in the entire Ummah!!! This whole thread's agenda is to legitimise fun lifestyles, the right to pursuit pleasure in life!!! Disgusting!
where exactly has this "agenda" been written?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
its all a part of "I must hate Muslims and give them false agendas in order to knock them down" that anon1 follows.
She PRETENDS that she is talking about moderation etc and combatting hedonism when it suits her, but she has also stated that Muslims cannot have fun while other Muslims are suffering.
So answering her question of "Is there anyone in the Muslim ummah who does not laugh? Does not spend time with their family? Does not relax?" unless she is a hypocrite, she would put herself in that category and reply yes to that question.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
haha, didn't even notice the contradiction before!
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Nope - it's refuting agendas of this site that promotes being british, muslims here should live comfortable lives, integrate, love democracy etc. All which contradict Islam and the behavior of the Prophet(saw) and his companions(ra).
Why would one push the idea that we can relax or have fun? Every single Muslim on the planet will do it as it is not possible to work 24x7 at anything! Muslims marry, they celebrate, they do Eid etc
The reason for raising this topic is broader - which can be seen in the context of this site, its magazine and modernist agenda - all subtexts to the articles Ed and You kick off!
This one is about the lifestyle Muslims should have - have fun, enjoy yourselves, don't be serious, participate in the national sport like football - we're BritishMuslims who don't have to get involved in the political affairs of the Ummah and criticising the govt does not like it; if we do get invovled we should just send some sticky plasters as the govt and its charity institutions push that as the solution even though it solves little and poverty/war goes on around the world.
The young companions (youth) who embraced Islam in Mecca were never fed this nonsense by the Prophet(saw) - look at Musab ibn Umayr's life where he gave up all his luxuries, comforts and such like from his previous luxurius life and strove for Islam all his life, to die with a blanket on him that did not cover him fully. He achieved jannah as a martyr - today's youth are encouraged to do what? Let's chat about football! Look at all the discussions - few can contribute anything substantive - but when it comes to football, all their analysis comes out! This is the state of the brothers in Islam! Disgraceful!
Wrong - I am attacking the western lifestlye that you are encouraging amongst youth - you should just accept that such lifestyles are not compatible with Islam and the youth should be doing more nobler stuff than watching football, cricket, boxing, hollywood movies, bollywood romance etc!
All that sounds good and... well, long.
But all of it is attacking a strawman that does not exist.
Point out where this site has told people to lead a hedonist lifestyle.
Remember when you were told by someone "there is a topic on football in the forums" and you replied "I am not surprised" in an unapproving manner?
It did not matter that it got like one post every 6 months or so, but its very existence offended your sensibilities.
Later when asked about fun, you denied its permission outright. You gave no excuses for it beingf allowed and was categorical in it not being allowed.
So please stop lying to yourself and to us and to yourself.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It's called subtext - noone would dare argue they are advocating a hedonist lifestyle... it's just a matter of time. Introduce the concepts that make up henodism, concept by concept, and then legalise it. The same was done with democracy - nobody argued it all in one go - but today you unashamedly argue it is Islamic when it is kufr. Just because noone's done that with devilworship or hinduism holds you back from claiming them to be Islamic too - but we've been over that ground. I could show you that your logic leads to Allah does not exist but you would stick cling to it!
Yes - as I don't approve of it. Trivial nonsense to keep the masses busy and depoliticised - the establishment is quite happy that their societies are kept on opium whilst they commit crimes around the world in their names and they haven't a clue! If they did, they'd be out demonstrating and giving the elites a hard time!
Maybe you can provide the context too... Or do you like taking snippets to attack your enemy? Is that the latest strategy?
yes, introduce the concepts by posting ahadith by showing what is allowed... how dare people use the ahadith to decide what is right and wrong...
Feel free to write your own subtext.
You sound like you are saying "Oh, how dare these Muslims follow the qur'an and sunnah! I want them to do as I say waaah!"
you are not arguing for fun and entertainment to be in moderation within a healthy lifestyle. You are arguing for it to be not present at all, except you try to not mention, or ommit, that part of your argument and pretend that you want moderation (wait... were you not against moderation before?)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Correction - how dare people fabricate/mistranslate hadith to justify kufr concepts like truth is in the majority or democracy!!!
I'm not into encouraging people to do fun and entertainment - there are much bigger issues at hand they need to be doing - you can encourage them to do trivia and live western lifestyles as BritishHinduMuslims as much as you want-don't expect people to agree with such kufr however.
but you are into ecnouraging them against it and pretending that it is not allowed at all, even going to present "evidence" to suggest it.
That is not about not encouraging people, but about denying what islam allows.
(and btw, just because you declare something a kufr concept, it does not make the concept kufr. and the hadith was not fabricated. it exists. you simply disagree with the translation and meaning. But I understand when you have been caught ommitting facts why you would want me to sound worse...)
Besides, it is not your opinion that makes somethign kufr. When confronted with qur'an ahadith and the sahabah doing somethign that you class as kufr, instead of accepting that you are wrong, you berate others for suggesting that they did such things.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
No I have stated clearly several times the Ummah (including myself) relaxes and enjoy eid, marriages etc I disagree with it as a lifestyle which this site encourages. Subtext and even blatantly - just look through your magazines and you can see it throughout... maybe you're so involved in the process that you cannot see the wood for the trees - but trust me, it is there in your face to someone who reads them.
You should forget issues of fun - people do it without you telling them and don't need you to tell them - if you are geuinely concerned Muslims don't have fun you are seriously deluded - my giving you benefit of the doubt means you are not deluded but have absorbed western lifestyles and such philosophies and are trying to introduce them into Islam like you have with other western socio-political notions - a consistent theme is emerging and it is most damning! You really do need to look at your philosophy a little more carefully... honestly!
The hadith you cited does not exist in any collection - if it does produce it.
Mistranslation can occur on odd words and is forgivable - you changed the entire hadith not with mistranslations, but insertions, ommissions, every possible trick in the book!
LOL Caught ommitting facts - so you are now committing double standards. Just in this post alone you have been caught omitting several billion facts!!! One could say you are a genuine hypocrite in actions! My God - the crime of ommitting a fact - it's the first time I've ever been accused of that! What's the punishment governor - are you going to chop my ear off???
Except that the prophet
did tell people to enjoy themselves and said it should be encouraged to show others (in this case the Jews) that Muslims can and do have fun. So if you are trying to follow the Prophet's hikmah, you also need to encourage fun when it is appropriate instead of trying to ignore it as some dirty thing that must be hidden. from the link in the first post:
If this was an issue which did not need to be told to people, the prophet
would not have done so. More, you would not have gone around making statements that it is not allowed and you would not have tried to play off a saying of Hadhrat Umar (ra) to pretend that it was not allowed at all.
I do not need to "punish" you or hold you to account. You need to forget about my standards and concentrate on your own. If you are trying to promote Islam like the prophet (saw), do it properly and try not to ignore the bits that you find inconvenient. This means you need to encourage people to take part in halaal entertainment in moderation and not play it off as some dirty thing that you have to merely tolerate.
Being a teacher of Islam which you mentioned you are/do is about being a teacher of life. It has responsibilities.
(yes, there are also people out there who have a stronger hatred of entertainment than you and do actively discourage it, so presenting the other side and following what the prophet
taught is important.)
Except that you managed to find it in arabic and then offered a slightly different translation adding your own words to it, words like "political" that were not from the arabic. but I think I can let that go as I am trying to keep this semi on track by not responding in like to the end of your last post. I can do so and I may choose to do so later on, but for now, I will concentrate on the more important bits.
You, as a teacher who claims she is trying to follow the sunnah of the prophet
are failing to do so by trying to merely tolerate the existence of fun and entertainment instead of telling people how it really is.
(There are assertions in your post that this site encourages people to have an ideology of fun. but I guess that is something that I can just say that you're wrong on without the need for it to be discussed further because I doubt there is much telling people that. People can see for themselves.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You should actually read the ahadith you cite - where people are not doing it, it can be encouraged. Bring me even ANY GROUP, MOVEMENT, or MUSLIMS in the UK, OR EVEN THE WORLD, who do not have fun, relax or celebrate eids, weddings etc YOU CAN'T!
In the UK, Muslims are participating in much more than that - they are participating in lifestyles based around fun - that is the kufr you are encouraging - and not encouraing SERIOUS NON-FUN MUSLIMS in the UK to have some fun as NONE EXIST!
NOPE I had to ask you if a hadith that appeared in Tirmizi that had a few words (my ummah will not agree) that matched a few words in your narration was the same as what you were citing. I could find nothing else that even came remotely close!!!
The hadith I found did not even match yours - it was totally different! Thus you fabricated or totally mistranslated the hadith which actually exists. I cited numerous errors on what you cited - you cannot even accept your errors!
Another fabrication - I did not cite the word political by itself. You have to distort what I say in order to even try attacking me whilst I critique what you actual type.
I cited a "political community" or "political body" which is a phrase or clause that has meaning when it is used - it is the direct translation of jama'a - a political body or community ruled over by an Imam - as opposed to non-political body or group or community. Thus the translation is precise - your ignorance of Arabic is the problem here that you don't even know what jama'a means! LOL
The whole ideology being taught by this site is secularism!
Encouraging fun and entertainment as a website - go to serious Islamic sites and you'll never see them encouraging looking at men's thighs for fun!
You deny Islam in the political system and import democracy? It's what the Europeans did centuries ago, kick out Christianity from politics and replace it with man made systems.
You replace the Islamic bonds with bonds of kufr nationalism and when accounted, sheepishly claim you've got a passport! LOL
If it was not so serious, one would have to laugh!
Were you not the one that tried to mention the deathbed quote of Hadhrat Umar (ra) as proof that Muslims were not allowed to have fun?
Did you also not question the need for entertainment/fun in life (making the statement that it was unnecessary) in another topic?
As for movements that have tried to ban stuff... A Shabab in Somalia and the Taliban in Afghanistan. they tried to ban entertainment and the latter have even shot at kids who were playing football (with their knees covered).
You're trying to twist your way out of earlier utterances made by yourself now by pretending you are arguing for moderation when in the past you have even rejected the very idea of moderation and probably considered it one of your many "kufr ideologies".
Like the boy who cried wolf, you have labeled so many things kufr ideologies that it has really lost its effect.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Oh forgive me - I see the light! How could I have misunderstood things???
The Prophet(saw) was encouraging his companions to look at half naked kuffar and their thighs for fun? Silly me for not noticing that in the Arabic hadith and it took you to translate it and extract it via your deep ijtihad from the English text...
Everybody, go back to looking at thighs of kuffar - forget the prophet(saw) ever said it was awrah - he probably didn't know as much as You here does - LOL
You have fabricated/mistranslated evidences and taken them out of context to justify democracy and majority opinions and were caught red-handed! What more is there to go?
Absolutely disgraceful - just to defend your perverted modernist ideology ! Shame!
aah yes, sarcasm the lowest form of wit.
you could just as easily correct your ways, but it seems you are too stubborn to.
You always feign disgust after you have nowhere else to go.
The shaytaan is condemned to hellfire for all eternity due to his arrogance.
Here's the thing, you cannot find flaw in the ahadith that have been presented in this topic, yet you still decide to not learn off them.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
ISNT IT TIME THE 'YOU' AND 'ANON' DING DONG STOPPED...AS WE'RE ALL GETTING BORED OF IT AND MOST TOPICS ARE BEING HIJACKED BY BOTH OF YOU.
Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit - punning is the lowest form of wit.
Your problem is that you repeat whatever you hear - which will always mean you will be susceptible to errors and mistakes. This is especially dangerous in matters of Islam, as the way of life is organically constructed from an epistemological basis to produce a unique way of life.
Those who do not undergo this process willy nilly try lifting and importing normative matters from othre ways of life, seeking only to check it does not contradict Islam. Such a process is so dubious, reminiscent of the worst of scholars during the early Islamic period, Mutazalites.
You should take sincere advice on board instead of arrogantly assuming you know everything when it has clearly been shown you do not - and worst, you make major blunders in translating and interpreting hadith!
Hey, I am not the one that has issues with the article and the ahadith quoted in the first post!
From that article:
as for
"Everything is allowed unless it is forbidden" - I am quite sure you also approve of this yardstick in the general case?
(I think I hit a nerve when I decided to use your level of absurd analogies
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" type of thing.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Don't you gain pleasure from worship?
Is it all just a painful duty for you?
Do u see life as a struggle?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
I know you have no problem with the purpose of life being fun!
Those of us who believe the purpose of live is worship do have a problem with such a principle.
What's the proof for this?
(And no I don't agree with it!)
You used it previously in a discussion and so I had assumed that you agreed with it.
No biggie. I got confused there it seems.
I really cba to argue with you so I will accept for now that your mind works in mysterious ways.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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