Who was Imam Ali

Where is that hadith from? source?

Not doubting it as it could very well be the case, but it does not negate other important sahabas either.

[quote=You]Where is that hadith from? source?[/quote]

tirmidhi, ibn majah and others.

[quote=malik]Please give your views,
what you have been taught by your molvis, your own beliefs on Imam Ali.[/quote]

he was the fourth khalif and the spiritual successor of the prophet (saw).

ok - was just making sure.

I see no complications with that really. However at the same time it does not negate the way things happened as wrong either - it does not say that Hadhrat Ali (ra) was the only one.

When it came to leading prayers, even right at the end, it was Hahdrat Abu Bakr (ra) who lead them.

There are multiple interpretations and multiple sources - if there was a "wrong way", the Prophet ﷺ would have warned against it in order to protect the faith. Instead people were allowed to choose their new leadership, and even if it was a hurried and chaotic process, it did choose hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) has the leader.

If Imam Ali was so against this, he would not have named any of his sons "Abu Bakr" - which he did. (twice?)

[quote=You]If Imam Ali was so against this, he would not have named any of his sons "Abu Bakr" - which he did. (twice?)[/quote]

Wow, I didn't know that!

Did you also know that one of the sons of the first caliph Abu Bakr, called Muhammad, sided with Imam Ali in the Battle of the Camel.
He and Imam Ali both fought a war against a wife of the Prophet (pbuh).

[quote=malik]Did you also know that one of the sons of the first caliph Abu Bakr, called Muhammad, sided with Imam Ali in the Battle of the Camel.
He and Imam Ali both fought a war against a wife of the Prophet (pbuh).[/quote]

You know when two elders are having a disagreement do you ever see a child butting in to offer an opinion?

Even if that child does, you know what happens? The child gets told to shut up... why? It is beyond the child's comprehension!

Another 'twelver' street scholar hither!

the original quotation was a friend of ali RA is a friend of mine while a enemy of ali RA is a enemy of mine, the hadith never says master. it says mawla, in the term of friend.

Do you know how many meaning Mawla has? Ask your own molvi.

[quote=malik]Did you also know that one of the sons of the first caliph Abu Bakr, called Muhammad, sided with Imam Ali in the Battle of the Camel.
He and Imam Ali both fought a war against a wife of the Prophet (pbuh).[/quote]

and your point being? wait, are you saying that the sahabahs were also good guys too?

I'm glad this topic was created. I have questions if anyone can answer any :

What are the main issues between Sunnis and Shi'as regarding Imam Ali?

And is this the biggest difference and the reason for the major divide? If so, where did all the other differences etc come from? E.g Mut'ah marriage etc.

Why do some people believe Shi'a Islam to not be Islam but a separate but similar religion? And yes, some people do.

Also, what's the relation between Shi'a Islam and all the other divisions? e.g wahabbism, sufism etc? Because i read somewhere that Sufism and shi'ism used to be considered very similar and aren't anymore.

I hope none of that offends/overwhelms anyone, i'm just interested.

[quote=malik]Do you know how many meaning Mawla has? Ask your own molvi.[/quote]

yes and the one that was reffered to this hadith was friend not the thrash you fielthy shias make you slaves of bush.

The word Shia has been used in hadith.

There is a hadith in Sunnni books in which Prophet (phub) said:

[b]"O Ali! Only you and your Shias will be successful on the Day of Judgement."[/b]

Ya Ali Madaad.

[quote=MakeMeRawr_6TeenF]

I'm glad this topic was created. I have questions if anyone can answer any :

What are the main issues between Sunnis and Shi'as regarding Imam Ali?

And is this the biggest difference and the reason for the major divide? If so, where did all the other differences etc come from? E.g Mut'ah marriage etc.

Why do some people believe Shi'a Islam to not be Islam but a separate but similar religion? And yes, some people do.

Also, what's the relation between Shi'a Islam and all the other divisions? e.g wahabbism, sufism etc? Because i read somewhere that Sufism and shi'ism used to be considered very similar and aren't anymore.

I hope none of that offends/overwhelms anyone, i'm just interested. [/quote]

I am not offended. I am a Shia Muslim. Shias welcome question and never try to prevent inquiry into any matter. But Sunnis brothers tend to stop people from digging into history. I assume they are ashamed of what their leaders had done. We are not ashamed of anything.
Shias scholars encourage research in everything.

Sunni scholars dont like questions. Try it and see. Ask a Sunni molvi about Battle of Camel and the secret elections at Saqifa right after death of Prophet (pbuh).

There are many sects among muslims. People have choices.
There is:

Islam of Imam Ali
Islam of Abu Bakr

I follow Imam Ali as appointed successor of the Prophet (pbuh). After him we follow his 12 successors called 12 Imams.
Sunnis follow Abu Bakr and Umar.
Shias dont follow these two caliphs because they denied Ali his divine right given to him by Prophet (pbuh).

That is the main difference between my Islam and the Islam of others.

We are all muslims, but I believe Shia muslims have the original version of what the Prophet (pbuh) gave to humanity. Sunni brothers have a second hand version.

[quote=malik]The word Shia has been used in hadith.

There is a hadith in Sunnni books in which Prophet (phub) said:

[b]"O Ali! Only you and your Shias will be successful on the Day of Judgement."[/b]

Ya Ali Madaad.

[/quote]

The word "Shia" means "followers; members of party". As such, the term "Shia" alone has no negative or positive meaning unless we specify the leader of the party

http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter1b/13.html

[quote=malik][quote=MakeMeRawr_6TeenF]

I'm glad this topic was created. I have questions if anyone can answer any :

What are the main issues between Sunnis and Shi'as regarding Imam Ali?

And is this the biggest difference and the reason for the major divide? If so, where did all the other differences etc come from? E.g Mut'ah marriage etc.

Why do some people believe Shi'a Islam to not be Islam but a separate but similar religion? And yes, some people do.

Also, what's the relation between Shi'a Islam and all the other divisions? e.g wahabbism, sufism etc? Because i read somewhere that Sufism and shi'ism used to be considered very similar and aren't anymore.

I hope none of that offends/overwhelms anyone, i'm just interested. [/quote]

I am not offended. I am a Shia Muslim. Shias welcome question and never try to prevent inquiry into any matter. But Sunnis brothers tend to stop people from digging into history. I assume they are ashamed of what their leaders had done. We are not ashamed of anything.
Shias scholars encourage research in everything.

Sunni scholars dont like questions. Try it and see. Ask a Sunni molvi about Battle of Camel and the secret elections at Saqifa right after death of Prophet (pbuh).

There are many sects among muslims. People have choices.
There is:

Islam of Imam Ali
Islam of Abu Bakr

I follow Imam Ali as appointed successor of the Prophet (pbuh). After him we follow his 12 successors called 12 Imams.
Sunnis follow Abu Bakr and Umar.
Shias dont follow these two caliphs because they denied Ali his divine right given to him by Prophet (pbuh).

That is the main difference between my Islam and the Islam of others.

We are all muslims, but I believe Shia muslims have the original version of what the Prophet (pbuh) gave to humanity. Sunni brothers have a second hand version.

[/quote]

Thank you :]

And i know, the only Shi'a i've ever known is my Ex-RS teacher who's a reverted Muslim who's Shi'a and he's very philosophical and open. But i don't think that's unique to Shi'as because lots of Sunni people are philosophical too.

what are the secret saqifa elections about?

When Prophet (pbuh) died, the Shias of Ali stayed with him. The enemies went their own way.
Prophet passed away in Medina. Many people left the body of the Prophet to grab power. They were greedy for rule.
They denied Imam Ali's rightful successorship of the Prophet. They ignored what Prophet had told them.
Prophet had appointed Ali as successor. But people secretly chose Abu Bakr at meeting at Saqifa.
Imam Ali remained with the body of his master. He washed the body for burial. while Ali prepared for the funeral, the rest were busy with grabbing the seat of power...

This was the beginning of division of muslims into many sects which exist up to this day.

An account of last 2 months of Prophet's life:

http://www.rafed.net/english/books/beliefs/ask-those-who-know/16.html

[quote=malik]When Prophet (pbuh) died, the Shias of Ali stayed with him. The enemies went their own way.
Prophet passed away in Medina. Many people left the body of the Prophet to grab power. They were greedy for rule.
They denied Imam Ali's rightful successorship of the Prophet. They ignored what Prophet had told them.
Prophet had appointed Ali as successor. But people secretly chose Abu Bakr at meeting at Saqifa.
Imam Ali remained with the body of his master. He washed the body for burial. while Ali prepared for the funeral, the rest were busy with grabbing the seat of power...

This was the beginning of division of muslims into many sects which exist up to this day.

An account of last 2 months of Prophet's life:

http://www.rafed.net/english/books/beliefs/ask-those-who-know/16.html[/…]

i still fail to understand what shia's complain about i mean at the end of the day Ali RA was still a caliph regardless of when he became caliph i mean it even sounds as if some shia's hate the other caliphs .... that surely cant be right can it.

Islam of Ali (ra)
Islam of Abu Bakr (ra)

??!

[quote=malik]The word Shia has been used in hadith.

There is a hadith in Sunnni books in which Prophet (phub) said:

[b]"O Ali! Only you and your Shias will be successful on the Day of Judgement."[/b]

Ya Ali Madaad.

[/quote]

I can't but laugh at this.

Shia in Arabic means party I.e. group.

What twisting of a Hadith.

even if it means party/group doesnt it still favour the Shia's?

[quote=malik]The word Shia has been used in hadith.

There is a hadith in Sunnni books in which Prophet (phub) said:

"O Ali! Only you and your Shias will be successful on the Day of Judgement."

Ya Ali Madaad.

[/quote]

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]even if it means party/group doesnt it still favour the Shia's?[/quote]

Shia is a generic word. It means party.

Lets put it this way:

Prophet (phub) said:
"O Ali! Only you and your party will be successful on the Day of Judgement."

Who's Ali's RA party?

Shia call themselves Party, so because they call themselves that this Hadith applies to them.

but who else would be Ali (ra) party?

Ahle Sunnah! Me and Ed! Only two I can vouch for!

oh i get ya! 🙂 (yes finally) we all followed Ali ra cuz he was a caliph

1. Mawla is not generally used in the sense of friend, butof guide, leader etc etc, so maliks translation may not be incorrect. Just think about it.

2. Sunnis accept Hadhrat Ali (ra) as their guide/leader. We also accept the rest of the companions.

We do not think we need to pick and choose between the sahabahs as we accept and see good in them all.

Hence, this issue is not about and has never been about accepting Hadhrat Ali (ra) as a leader, mawla etc.

Allah and His Prophet loved Imam Ali. They also commanded everyone who wishes to go to Paradise to love Ali. That means if any muslim sunni or shia truly loves Imam Ali, then it will be considered that they are party of Ali.

That is why Prophet said: "O Ali, only you and your Shias will be succeed on the Day of Judgement."

[b]Shia means allies or supporters of Imam Ali.[/b]

By obeying Ali, the Shias are the true followers of Prophet's Sunnah.

Imam Ali was the closest person who knew the best what Prophet said and did. That is why Prophet named Ali his successor. Like Prophet Ali became master of believers.

Hence shias who love and follow Ali are actually the real sunnis.

Dr. Muhammad Tijani al-Samawi of Tunisia was a sunni scholar. By becoming a shia of Ali, he says he became a true sunni. That is how Allah guided him to Prophet's real sunnah.

http://www.al-islam.org/Real/
http://www.al-islam.org/guided/

[quote=malik]

[b]Shia means allies or supporters of Imam Ali.[/b]

Hence shias who love and follow Ali are actually the real sunnis.

Dr. Muhammad Tijani al-Samawi of Tunisia was a sunni scholar. By becoming a shia of Ali, he says he became a true sunni. That is how Allah guided him to Prophet's real sunnah.

http://www.al-islam.org/Real/
http://www.al-islam.org/guided/[/quote]

So Shia means party/group not Party of Ali.

You've proved that in you own words. (See bold)

2nd thing, this guy who converted to Shiaism has no face. What's he got to hide?

Why do you say Shiekh Samawi he has no face?
Did you even try google? Why do you say he is hiding?

Dr Tijani Samawi as a top sunni scholar who converted to shia Islam. He wrote many books. He lectures everywhere.

Here is his face:

http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&p=4&id=170025

That picture is ugly, ali RA was handsome, it is unknown how ali RA looks like, no pictures were made while he was alive or long after he died, he ali RA had massive beard, not a normal ugly lloking one in that picture, and many muslims convert to christianity doesnt mean christianity is the correct religion, and many muslim became nonmuslims even during muhammad SAW time, it proves nothing.

You shias source is worse then fairytales, by allah how can those who reject verses of the quran and change the meaning of the quran speak the truth.