Salaam People
today we got a new guy in the office, i was chuffed at 1st....finally another asian!
turns out hes an athiest now, once believed but then went away for uni and went crazy! spent all diner discussing Islam and his view that theres no logic to god and that hes got a million and one questions he wants 2 ask god. hes very unhappy with him 
tried discussing it with him, but he wants factual evidence in his face. i.e. an email from God or his actual presence.
now i know theres much evidence on earth, which i mentioned a few off the top off my head....but i didnt think i would come work 2 discuss Islam...my other co-workers are wierdo rockers and i just sit heer quitely with the revival site. 
any1 help me? what kind of stuff should i say, coz at the moment my arguements are good i think, but in no logical order. coz like i said, i havnt realy prepared!
Mr Ed.............your good at this 1 i hear.....
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
SALAAM
first of all what are his arguments...
list his arguments and i will give you counter arguments....
heres a few things for your info....
http://www.therevival.co.uk/god.php
wasalaam
he wants factual evidence, something that is so obvious that no-one can deny. i.e. man united the best club in the world!
he uses science as he knows it, i.e. evolution. his main arguement is about history. where didn humans come in the timeline? T-rex was chillin on earth a few trillion years ago and humans only a few million. why would god create animals and then think, 'oh, im bored...lets create humans'. humans are the main reason earth was created for, why so long time gap and why animals 1st? he also believes the big bang but hs justification for evrytyme i ask him 'how did that happen/who created that then?' is that, science says.
now i know Prof. Qadri has covered the issue of Islam and Science many times, i think ive got a few books at home. but im not at home
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Salam
I had personal chats with many so called "atheists". Even professors.
In the end they all admitted that they were infact agnostics. They were not athiests.
I have yet to come across "an Atheist".
There are on such things as Atheists.
They DON'T exist.
Omrow
enlighten me.........what is an angnostic? or the diffrence?
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
I agree with OMROW the very fact they argue about the existence of God places them in the category of believer
Agnositc one who believes there is somthing out there be it nature or whatever in charge not necessarily the God of religion
i went through a terrible day when i lost all contact with reality and moaned and groaned all day to my freinds saying where is God? i need His help. it was such a stupid day that i went to bed early and i had a dream where there was a storm and from the lightening a book was hurtled towards me and as it came closer the pages were turning and it was the Koran! I woke up with a start and have never asked God for any more proof
day 2 with the agnostic.
were having lunch in piccadilly gardens, and avoiding the topic of religion. along comes a guy handing out leaflets and down to my own stupidity, i asked hi what it was about before i took one. (what happens wen u try bien 2 smart). hes a scientologist, saying how people from all faiths can join. yeah safe, whatever u say mate!
so....me and th agnostic and a scientologist spend a whole hour talking.
agnostic - doesnt belive in spirituality
scientologist - only belives in spirits
me - wondering what i had done to be here.
a whole bloody hour discussing a loada cobblers, and he couldnt even promise i get to meet tom cruise! y on earth should i join then, it bloody costs to join anyway!
i asked him why....he said ur religion costs (keep the mosques running). i told him no it doesnt, people give out of free will. shut him up.
last week i met a sikh man who told me my whole future
funnily tho, he said a lot of stuf that was kinda true. i liked it tho wen he said im gona die about 92-93 yrs old after having a meal with my kids and grandkids, gona die a happy rich man. with 3 kids. just 2 prove him wrong im gona hav 4!
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Scientologists! I've had a run in with them.
Man are they wierd.
aye, hes invited us 2 thier building in Deansgate. cost them 1 million quid :shock:
must be expensive 2 join
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
They give you a free introductry sesssion. Then if you attend further sessions, they slowly take all your material possesions off you in order to pay for the 'technology' they use to 'free' you.
lol. loada jibberish that. the agnostic was 2 sceptical of it as well, so i dont think we'll be paying a visit any time too soon
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Salam
Agnostic is a person who is in a state of unknowing.
Omrow
im gona shoot this guy soon.
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
what about day 3 with the agnostic?
like i said, im gona shoot him. 3 days of hell. lol. ive never come across some-one who was once a believer but now has become so brainwashed, heartless and selfish.
worst thing is, he thinks im his friend now :shock:
i cant quit either, plus i was here 1st, wat do i do. this guy is jus so corrupt! 2day tellin me all the clubs n bars hes worked in n wat happens there. how he used 2 go work drunk etc etc...............and his parents havnt kicked him out yet :shock: if that was my kid he'd be a dead man now
im'a take him out, he wont listen to any of my backup for the word of god
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Just tell him he is full of it.
Tell him he is misguided.
Tell him the reason its called belief is because God want you to acknowledge him WITHOUT proof.
Ask him the questions that athiest scientists cannot answer.
Ask him how did every thing become out of shear chaos.
Tell him Himans are not god's only creation, thus he does not need to create us before anything.
Ask him what are his real doubts? they all put on a bravado face.
He will (guaranteed) say a few things he believes are wrong with Islam, and will have a misguided view.
Just find out his objections first (and post them here). You can answer him later.
You need to think of it as a competiton. Something to pass time. An amusement.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Also time is a creation. Allah was there before time.
He created everything. Including time.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
admin your a smart guy u knw that.
i'll defo bring those points up. only thing is, hes so full of crap its unbelievable. plus he cant talk about religion without getting worked up and swearing every other word.
i wouldnt care if he wasnt muslim at 1st, but its so weird to have a pakistani muslim, just like myself, so much not-like me. i have more in common with the goray here!
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Hayder u know what, you can get your sis to give you contact details for one of the bro who graduated from ICIS this yr (cant rember his name, think it was the bro frm america) neway point is he was at uni studin philosophy which screwed his head up big time in regards to believin in Allah, but then after goin to ICIS all his doubts were removed, he should some pointers as to what convinced him to believe in the existence of Allah, maybe he will be able to help you.
Maybe slightly off topic (when have i ever cared bout that!)
neway i was listening to one of Shaykh ul islam's lectures and it touched upon believin in one god....shaykh ul islam said science may not prove it others things amy not prove but one thing that cant be dismissed is the argument that the Holy Prophet Muhammad
has said that there is one god and that is why we believe in Allah's existence.
I also heard a story bout an awliyah Allah but cnt rember the name..basically when it was near the saints time to depart the world the devil was tryin everythin to make the saint lose his iman..so he used the question. how do u know god exists? The saint gave every proof but the devil dismised it declarin the arguments as being invalid, then the saints teacher came before him and said, the only argument that is there and cannot be dismissed is that the Holy Prophet
said that there is one god and that is why we believe there is one god, upon hearing this the devil ran off..
p.s. did that make sense?
yes
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Brainwashed? Thats amusing, athiests could argue that you've been brainwashed into believing there is a god.
How do you know there's a god? Their is no proof, only peoples personal beleif in the matter. If I believed there were fairies living down the bottom of my garden this would not be proof of their existence now would it?
Salam
What he is trying to say is that he does not believe that there are fairies.
He is not saying that he believes that there are no fairies.
Omrow
And if I told you I believed in fairies would that be proof enough for you that they existed, or would you expect a bit more tangible evidence? So why critisise someone who doesn't believe in god because the only evidence you have of his existence is your own personal beleif?
is that any clearer for you?
Salam
Believing is something's extistence does not bring that thing into existence, just as not believing in something's existence does not take that thing out of existence.
This is common sense.
If I believe Heidi Klum is in Manchester, this will not bring her to Manchester. If I believe she is dead, then this is not going to kill her.
The reality is that it is a fact that Elvis is alive, or, it is a fact that Elvis is not alive.
One of these two facts is true regardless of people's confessions.
Believing and facts are to different things.
We should ignore beliefs of others and try our best to find out which of the two facts is true.
Omrow
The Koran says who ever God misguides no one can guide and vice versa. The Koran says that they have deafness in their ears and shields placed on their hearts to prevent them from believing. The Koran even said it’s NOT your job to guide people… now giving them knowledge about religion is totally different if they are already beleivers. We need god, god don’t need us. I haven’t read this thread so sos if I have repeated what anyone has said.
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
its our duty to give da'waah and bring people to the right path, once on the right path ourselves of course. can you please back your statements where you said the Quran says so and so?
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Dude do you sit there reciting something you don’t understand?
Its somewhere in chapter 30…
Of course you can pray for their guidance if they are a naughty believer (like me) but if they have shields placed on their hearts there is nothing you can do about them… god even said don’t pray for the transgressors cause god will never have mercy on them…
Leave the Atheist dude alone…
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…