Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

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In the topic he mentions that he never got it from anyone and has been unable to get anyone to accept his position.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

to finish the argument quickly.

are taxes zakat? so neither are benefits.

plus pious men should take zakat its in the Qur'an. thouse who devote they life to islam and act proud as though they dont need it.

www.caliphofthefaithful.com

 

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Sahih International
Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect [zakah] and for bringing hearts together [for Islam] and for freeing captives [or slaves] and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the [stranded] traveler - an obligation [imposed] by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

 

Hamza13 wrote:

to finish the argument quickly.

are taxes zakat? so neither are benefits.

plus pious men should take zakat its in the Qur'an. thouse who devote they life to islam and act proud as though they dont need it.

www.caliphofthefaithful.com

 

to bring the hearts together

I think its perfectly okay to take child benefit and working Tax credit as well as child tax credit and job seekers allowance

This is purely because if eg if you live in Britain then you must follow its law and code of ethics thus paying tax is permissible because this helps people around the world effectively as money is used by the government to develop schools, hospitals etc

If you live in Dubai you don't need to pay tax so if you think its not permissible then you must go one of those countries where tax is not paid

similarly those who feel tax credits are not permissible in Islam then they should go places like America

Having said that intention is key

Job seeker allowance is acceptable in Islam but those who deliberately avoid work will be liable of their actions on judgement day and you can't blame government for facilitating it

Systems are in place to help you thus its not Haram

If you use the public transport is that Haram?

Most muslims are opportunists when they define haram or halal. They lie about their income , most of them,when claiming benefits. Many muslims work in restaurants or drive taxis,but they lie to the government. They donot keep money in the bank though they have lot of money. 

 

Unfortunately their children realise the folly perpeatred by their parents. As a result, young muslims have a high crime rate. there are more thanten thousand muslim prisoners in UK jails out of a population of eighty thousand.

abdil wrote:

They donot keep money in the bank though they have lot of money. 

Banks are not there to help you, but to exploit you.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:

abdil wrote:

They donot keep money in the bank though they have lot of money. 

Banks are not there to help you, but to exploit you.

 

And yet they offer a counselling service, or a 6 month break if you fall on hard times, or offer to reduce your monthly payments to make it more manageable.

Back in BLACK

Only if it benefits them and if they see a way of making money out of you.

Which is not bad in itself, but we have to be aware of the purposes of these places - and its not to help, but to make money.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:

Only if it benefits them and if they see a way of making money out of you.

Which is not bad in itself, but we have to be aware of the purposes of these places - and its not to help, but to make money.

Isnt that why customers go there too? Im sure they benefit from a loan or a credit rating? In having an account? All benefits a customer receives.

And I dont think the banks are fooling anyone, we all know they're a business and out to make money. But in the end customers benefit too.

Back in BLACK

I was responding to the idea that keeping money outside a bank is a bad thing.

It's not.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

The benefit money are come from difference sources. People given tax and some haram sources like postitutions, all kind of sprit, betting companies. If the source of the money are haram so how it will be halal. 

You are a %100 correct with this.  In america its even worse, if a woman gets welfare then she enters a contract that is the smae as a credit card, including interst, to get child support and father is oblgated to follow it uder the threat of imprisoment.  in fact paying the mother directly is not even considerd support of a child, it must go thru one of these collection centers. best of all the collection center does not have to give the money to the mother, it can take it to fund the welfare, so the man is paying but the child gets none.  There is no exception for illness or slow economy, if you fall behind you must still make up your missed payents, with interest.  if the woman gets off welfare then it all goes away and the man can support his child directly. Alhamduallah!

Of course taking benifit and doing nothing , claiming ( begging ) more and more passing over generation to generation it is not tolerance it is bad practice and Islam doesn't allow it. In UK show me one person who is under benifit wants to come out from the free luxury he has got good house ( with their choice big/ with garden / this decoration that decoration ) , free medicine , free travel how much a person can ask for ? Whereas we the tax work like donkey years after years no dream no luxury . The day money in it out to pay bills NI and of course one portion goes to welfare benifit. My question is why should I pay for someone luxury and I will kill myself to make them happy. How much it is justified? Is it allowed ? We don't get people pay our zakat here which is mandatory but pay for luxury which is taken almost forcefully . I work full time because that's my satisfaction but get angry when I see the same person working only 25 hrs enjoying family quality time no extra hassle and talk big . Is it allowed in Islam ? I don't mind to go my income the person on real need but not those who are eligible to work but live on benifit and show no intension to come out from this begging habit , like to live year after year under tax payer hardship money no matter how much we curse them. It wont effect them . Is it allowed for us being Muslim or islam does allow it?

Briliant Topic, I'm with the author on this one.
The taking (benifits) and giving (tax paying) of money to this government is both haraam, here is why:

Paying your fair share is fine until it results in innocent deaths. Muslims are not allowed to kill unlawfully.
Imagine you give shelter to an innocent man in your house and the next day your friend, dagger in hand, comes along and says I want to kill the man you are sheltering, i believe he has weapons of mass destruction. Without investigating or hesitation you say to your friend ''ere have my keys for the day, do your business but don't let it come back on me' Here you are the tax payer, your friend is the government, the man you give shelter to in your house are muslim men women and children and the key is tax money (money which funds wars).

In the same spirit receiving benefits is fine but not from the hand that kills unlawfully. Those on benefits are like the young children of the man in the story that kills the innocent man. The children who are very very very well looked after (citizens) can certainly complain of injustice (beg) but never remove the injustice because they are dependant on the father (hence why even a million strong protest against Iraq war did not make any difference, democracy is an illusion if you take the govt as your father)

Whether you are the owner of the house (tax payer) or the child of the friend (benefits receiver) you may find yourself being asked a question, a most budensome question in the hereafter:

“The son of Adam will not pass away from Allah until he is asked about five things: how he lived his life, and how he utilized his youth, with what means did he earn his wealth, how did he spend his wealth, and what did he do with his knowledge.” (Tirmidhi)

The solution? no joke, if you have the means migrate or live in a cave. If you don't have the means then place your head on the floor and beg for forgiveness.

You’re wrong and words like “haraam” should not be used lightly.

Mere conjecture is never enough to support a claim of something being haraam.

Early scholars used to try and avoid using such words as much as possible, unless there was a dire need, which there is not over here.

I stick to my position that there is nothing wrong with claiming benefits that you ar entitled to as part of your social contract of being a British Citizen. Not only that, there will be points where it may be referrable to alternatives.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You - you must differentiate whether you are entitled to benefits legally or islamically
Legally, Yes you are definitely entitled to benefits (for example you are legally entitled to drink alcohol)
But Islamically? .... what does your conscious say?

Again, if you’re the child (benefits receiver) what would you think if your father (the benefits provider) was a man who, as well as his good works, unlawfully kills / maims innocent children occasionally? Islamically, as soon as you are able, I hope your conscious would cause you to disassociate from this man and his house.

I don't conjecture - benifits and defence spending comes from the same pot, its called the consolodated fund (its like the govs current account) i.e the account that pays for benifits also pays for drone attacks (resulting in maimed children)

Wake up people ....

Islamically, it is not about what your conscience” says, but what the rules of Islam say.

Islam is not a culture that can be changed for the purposes of fitting your world view.

Now, If you do not consider it allowed, it requires evidence based on Islamic sources, not conjecture or “conscience”.

Going to your argument of consolidated funds, I have two issues.

Firstly, going back to Muslim history – there have been many leaders in the Muslim world that carried out actions that were horrendous. I have never come across a fatwa (mainly because I have not looked) stating that the money paid to the state in such times is being used for evil, therefore people should not pay it.

Secondly, your argument lead to its conclusion is that Muslims should not be living in the UK – If you live in the UK, tax cannot be avoided. Most things you purchase will have an element of tax in them. That should lead to the conclusion that you leave the UK and move elsewhere where you are not forced to pay tax on such matters.

I people want to avoid relying on state benefits, that is a good thing IMO. However they exist because there are vulnerable people who will suffer without them.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

During one of the khipha there were no muslims eligible to take zakah at that time, means none of the muslims were poor to beg/benefit/welfare. Most of us know this story. Muslim needs to think/decide/chose what is the best standard (by moral not by the worldy law) for them to make almighty happy. Thanks.

 

 

If you are ill, or not capable of earning a decent living due to health or family reasons, taking benefit is halal. But most people pretend they are ill, or make some other false excuses, to claim as much as they can, and that is not halal. Lying through your teeth to get extra money, and hiding real earnings, (cab drivers and many people earn cash and declare less) to claim benefits is not halal.

Begging from the state is haraam.

For those that are stating claiming benefits in general is haraam, is it your position that taking a pension is haraam? Are free bus passes for the elderly haraam?

Or is providing for the elder generation part of our religious and civic duty?

I cant believe that people label things haraam so easily.

Of course lying and deceipt are wrong and should be avoided and any money obtained such means tainted.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Actually lots of people take benefits even when they are able to go and work. That is because either because it is easier or that they are financially better off that way. 

I personally believe that if times are honestly hard and people are struggling to find work or make ends meet, then benefits should be used. But benefits being used as an easier option or in some case to make more savings is not acceptable, especially by those who preach about Islam, but yet forget the basics of ‘being honest’ and ‘working hard’.

thus is just my opinion

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