Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

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That does not make your proposition any less insane.

You are not following the rules of jurisprudence when coming to your conclusion.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
That does not make your proposition any less insane.

You are not following the rules of jurisprudence when coming to your conclusion.

This is not a Legal debate per se. But it's still nice to see that you've doing some reading into Philosophy.

Halal and haraam are a legal issue, not philosophy.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
Halal and haraam are a legal issue, not philosophy.

It's only legal in the sense of Sharia. The debate which we are having has a philosophical underpinning.

ok.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Nerds Blum 3

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You wrote:
Halal and haraam are a legal issue, not philosophy.

It's only legal in the sense of Sharia. The debate which we are having has a philosophical underpinning.


Doesn't make sense

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

It is quite self explanatory to most individuals. If you still don't understand then you will find out more about Sharia and Islamic Philosophy yourself.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
It is quite self explanatory to most individuals. If you still don't understand then you will find out more about Sharia and Islamic Philosophy yourself.

You brought it up, you should explain it.

You're discussing if something is halal or not THEREFORE it is discussing shariah law. What makes it philosophy?

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

This debate is philosophical because exploration of such a financial issue has become without cul-de-sac. Individuals such as yourself should try not take refuge in any form of scepticism. The specific branches of Philosophy which we have all used include Ethics and Epistemology. This is all in the context of Sharia which makes our discussion Islamic Philosophy.

I have to need to pseudo intellectualise this discussion as my position is that you are simply wrong.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Well that your opinion, You do not appear to be a Mufti, Molvi or Sheikh, though I do claim to be of such calibre. I have simply presented a case, which I beleive that people should debate (like we already have) and consult with appropriate persons.

Indeed whether you think that individuals of such community/religious power even posses calibre, or whether you percieve them to be merely "Halwa belly" (as put by one contributer her) is another matter.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
and consult with appropriate persons.

which you have then rejected in their entirety as you have been unable to find anyone who agrees.

though I do claim to be of such calibre

Mashallah brother. Where did you study? Who gave you ijazah?

I dont believe that all arguments and opinions are equal. Some are right, others are wrong.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
and consult with appropriate persons.

which you have then rejected in their entirety as you have been unable to find anyone who agrees.

I have actually been unable to find a respected individual who agrees with you.

respected or not, have you found anyone who agrees with you?

I dont really need to find people to agree with me as that is teh default position and I am not trying to turn the question of halaal and haraam into a philosophical discussion.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Debating whether something is halal or haram is philosophical.

Oh my life. No it isn't.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

I have common sense.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Debating whether something is halal or haram is philosophical.

Whether it is or not what does it matter? Why debate such useless things? Gheeeeeeez :roll:

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Debating whether something is halal or haram does matter.

Firstly that's not what you was debating in the last few comments. Secondly, what's more important is that you try to find out whether something is halal or haram rather than 'debating' about it based on your opinions. Thirdly, i think the issues of halal and haram should be left to people who have vast knowledge on the subject.

Unlike some self proclaimed internet scholars, and others who refer to sheikh google i don't think any of us here have the credentials to decide whether something is haram or halal. After all none of us decide what's halal or haram, for this you have to look at ahadith and the qur'an.

Anyway take care brother and Assalamu alaikum Biggrin

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

I hope that this debate can continue, maybe not on this thread because we have already discussed it enough from different angles, but instead in person with appropriate impartial religious people.

Walaikum salam.

i am about to sighn off may allah have mercy on me i will be broke not even money for food do dua for me brothers ands sisters his right i do feel like i am begging before i was on the right path was a crimnal in a obbsesd state were crb are done for every job its realy hard to find work on top of that no one likes to employ muslims es with beards i am sick of feeling like i am begging i am sick of the way they judge

Its not begging.

When you get a job, you pay back by paying your taxes.

I don't see what alternative you have if you cant get a job.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

Hamza13 wrote:

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

 

on top my family is not nice like urs to give me a start in life let alone a nice position to make money.

what do you suggest? Jihad? are you not aware of what you are saying? 

if there is land to cultivate i can be self sufficient. in town, in this economic climate im not sure i like what you are lobying for.

 

Hamza13 wrote:

Hamza13 wrote:

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

 

on top my family is not nice like urs to give me a start in life let alone a nice position to make money.

what do you suggest? Jihad? are you not aware of what you are saying? 

if there is land to cultivate i can be self sufficient. in town, in this economic climate im not sure i like what you are lobying for.

 

not to metion that ur wrong.

To which the Quran states:'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: The man who always begs will meet Allah with no flesh left on his face.'

listen to it... the men who always begs. emphasis on always.

so wait... ur saying this goverment has got me to meet Allah with no flesh on my face.

i cant work because of my dissability. i didnt ask to be taken to hospital. i wasnt hurting anyone.

with a mental ilness (so u claim) i now cant work. people wont employ me. 

what am i to do?

 

 

Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

 

Can i just ask where you got the above statement from?

 

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