Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

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I was simply defending myself from a criticism which another user originally made. By small I was refering to a weak use of vocabulary and not physical strengh. In our case I was not the first user to make a personal criticism, but I am now the first user to make a personal apology, for being too defensive.

I prefer the small. It suits me and stops me getting lost in the maze of big words.

and none of this is of any importance - remember debate is only useful when it has purpose. This one doesn't and in such places, it is better not to debate.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
@Knightsbridge, You're right, it's a made up word.

All words are essentially made up words.
& also words have the meaning that we choose to give them when we say them.
I don't see a problem with halaly, the meaning is clear & there isn't a 'proper' English equivalent.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:

I don't see a problem with halaly, the meaning is clear & there isn't a 'proper' English equivalent.
Me neither. I will continue using it Biggrin Just agreeing that it IS a made-up word to end the unnecessary debate Wink

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Ain't nuttink wrong wiv gd spelling and grammarness, I agree wiv Knighty.

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

You should all think about why society generally has such a negative image of British Muslims. I personally think that we should all work to give a stronger (well educated) image of our community, this is necessary if you want to be successful in giving dawah, isn't it?

Actions speak louder than words, and the words should also should not make you feel unapproachable.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

wow! at this thread..just wow. I wouldnt knw where to begin

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You should all think about why society generally has such a negative image of British Muslims. I personally think that we should all work to give a stronger (well educated) image of our community, this is necessary if you want to be successful in giving dawah, isn't it?

So you are uneducated if you make up words? Surely an educated person would know that Shakespeare frequently made verbs into nouns, two examples of this are tabling an agenda or chairing a meeting. Maybe you should google it Wink

Don't just do something! Stand there.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You should all think about why society generally has such a negative image of British Muslims. I personally think that we should all work to give a stronger (well educated) image of our community, this is necessary if you want to be successful in giving dawah, isn't it?

You wrote:
Actions speak louder than words, and the words should also should not make you feel unapproachable.

exactly (and part 2 )

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

The English translation of the Quran is written in a similar "big" or comprehensive style of language. You have to be able to understand and use some of this vocabulary in order to give dawah.

bilan wrote:
wow! at this thread..just wow. I wouldnt knw where to begin

I agree that this topic has become a labyrinth, which is why I recommend others who think the same as yourself and I to find out more about Islamic Philosophy.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
The English translation of the Quran is written in a similar "big" or comprehensive style of language. You have to be able to understand and use some of this vocabulary in order to give dawah.

what has that got to do with anything? Its not related to the topic.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
I agree that this topic has become a labyrinth, which is why I recommend others who think the same as yourself and I to find out more about Islamic Philosophy.

Just a pointer - most of it wil use Islamic sources, but the conclusions will the the opinions of the authors and not necessarily "what islam says" (or "the only thing Islam says").

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Ya'qub wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
The English translation of the Quran is written in a similar "big" or comprehensive style of language. You have to be able to understand and use some of this vocabulary in order to give dawah.

what has that got to do with anything? Its not related to the topic.

It is related to what the last few users before my post wrote.

You should branch out to other topics and let this one die.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
You should branch out to other topics and let this one die.

Well for that we would need to start a new thread. In relation to the original topic, I think it is safe to say that claiming benefits in Britain might or might not be haram. I'm sure that we can agree that the issue is debatable.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Ya'qub wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
The English translation of the Quran is written in a similar "big" or comprehensive style of language. You have to be able to understand and use some of this vocabulary in order to give dawah.

what has that got to do with anything? Its not related to the topic.

It is related to what the last few users before my post wrote.

How? And wht do you mean by 'big or comprehensive style'?
PowerofSilence may have used made up words, but her meaning was clear. Yours doesn't really make sense.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Ya'qub wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
The English translation of the Quran is written in a similar "big" or comprehensive style of language. You have to be able to understand and use some of this vocabulary in order to give dawah.

what has that got to do with anything? Its not related to the topic.

It is related to what the last few users before my post wrote.

How? And wht do you mean by 'big or comprehensive style'?
PowerofSilence may have used made up words, but her meaning was clear. Yours doesn't really make sense.

This is off topic, we really ought to conclude this thread.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You wrote:
You should branch out to other topics and let this one die.

Well for that we would need to start a new thread. In relation to the original topic, I think it is safe to say that claiming benefits in Britain might or might not be haram. I'm sure that we can agree that the issue is debatable.

No, I dont agree that it is debateable. Benefits are not haraam if acquired through honest means and I do not accept that there is any doubt over the matter.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You wrote:
You should branch out to other topics and let this one die.

Well for that we would need to start a new thread. In relation to the original topic, I think it is safe to say that claiming benefits in Britain might or might not be haram. I'm sure that we can agree that the issue is debatable.

No, I dont agree that it is debateable. Benefits are not haraam if acquired through honest means and I do not accept that there is any doubt over the matter.

Well that is your own opinion, which some Muslim people could agree or disagree with.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
You wrote:
You should branch out to other topics and let this one die.

Well for that we would need to start a new thread. In relation to the original topic, I think it is safe to say that claiming benefits in Britain might or might not be haram. I'm sure that we can agree that the issue is debatable.

No, I dont agree that it is debateable. Benefits are not haraam if acquired through honest means and I do not accept that there is any doubt over the matter.

Well that is your own opinion, which some Muslim people could agree or disagree with.

If someone has the opinion that alcohol is ok to drink, would you say there is a difference of opinion or that the person is wrong?

Don't just do something! Stand there.

That would depend on the reasoning and evidence which the person puts forwards. In relation to your example, there is no evidence which you have put forward to say that drinking alcohol is permissible.

brother I should mention that social security system was introduce by umar (rali), he collehict money from rich paid to poor people,its not haraam getting things from others or goverments, but most benefit claimer able work or hiding truth about their financial status, lieing and cheat involve is haraaam, how many of them saying truth about their finance to goverment, end of the day its haraaam.
if you see our most moulavees,ameers,sheikhs, moulana`s in uk they are very well off, they never work, driving new or nearly new 7 seaters,BMW`s, I work for 65 hours per week in two jobs still cant afford for cars,

taxi drivers they claim working less than 30 hours to council and getting all the haraams while they working 70 hours per week, and renting another four people in their council home, inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajuwoon
allah may forgive all of us and clear our bloods not involve in haraam

If you take anything that you are not entitled to then you are stealing which is wrong of course. If you are truly destitute and unable to work then this government has made an obligation to look after you as should any good government Islamic or otherwise

There are several alternatives to taking money from the government. There is no 'obligation' to receive any money because you have to apply (an alternative word for something else). I have given evidence and quotes from the quran and hadith to say that taking benefits is in the UK is haram. In balance and fairness, there are other users who claim (pardon the pun) that taking benefits is okay, but I am struggling to find their accompanying evidence.

I can guess that after reading this thread, people would certainly have doubts about whether taking benefits islamically permissible. I would advise asking an impartial Mufti, Molvi or Sheikh, by impartial I mean a person who does not themselfs claim benefits, (you might find it hard to find an impartial person which is why you might intially get mixed answers).

We are well within our rights to say no to these handouts by not claiming them in the first place, the government would actually appreciate it if the Muslim population put a halt to their dependence because it would save the government millions, as well as making Muslim people look stonger, self-sufficient and able to financially stand up on our own two feet (as the Quran/Hadith clearly state we should do). When British-Muslims leach from the state it gives the far-right and other associated media outlets an excuse to prove how weak Muslim people are financially (as offical government claimant statistics show). For examples of the poor reputation that people have of Britsh-Muslims, have a look at these news examples for popular British opinion of your own (our) religion and its followers:

-http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1404884_benefits_blackspot_the_oldham_estate_where_just_three_people_go_out_to_work
-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242704/My-benefits-belong-Allah-Hate-preacher-Anjem-Choudary-defends-25-000-year-payments-British-taxpayers.html
-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041244/Polygamy-Investigation-Muslim-men-exploit-UK-benefits-system.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I want to leave you all with some rhetorical questions to think about (Rhetorical means a question which does not need an answer).
- How can you attract people to a religion of prosperity with this sort of common opinion against Muslims in Britain?
- Isn't taking benefits in this country haram anyway?
- Are your own feelings of entitlement to government money part of your religion or part of your (Bangladeshi/Indian/Pakistani) culture?

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
- Isn't taking benefits in this country haram anyway?

No and you have not proven it so.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
- Are your own feelings of entitlement to government money part of your religion or part of your (Bangladeshi/Indian/Pakistani) culture?

Neither but an allowance set in this country based on the rules here that do not contradict anything laid down in Islam.

They may be rhetorical answers, but that does not mean that you are right.

(exploiting benefits is not the same as recieving benefits within the system).

You also dont cover the question of paying taxes. I pay taxes so that people may take benefits. the other side is when I need those benefits, I will take them too. neither side is begging, but it is how the system has been designed to help the less fortunate and people with needs.

You may be comfortable where if you do not have a job, someone else may be able to cover your expenses and more, but Islam is not a religion solely for the rich where the rules are set t favour those who already have the means. it is for everyone and your elitism on this matter is not from Islam - especially as you dont seem to understan the requirements that make something haraam.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:

- Are your own feelings of entitlement to government money part of your religion or part of your (Bangladeshi/Indian/Pakistani) culture?

The only reason people come here from (Bangladesh – Indian - Pakistan) is because they know that life’s easy in England compared to there country of origin , they’ll only work until they get a permanent visa after that you know what happens

I'm sorry my English is not very good

My English is not very good

lollywood wrote:
they’ll only work until they get a permanent visa after that you know what happens

Most people I know work quite hard, don't know about your family.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:

Most people I know work quite hard, don't know about your family.

Mine do as well but that does happen you know

My English is not very good

so your generalisation is already found to be wrong.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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