Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

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You wrote:

What about selling cocain on the street?

It is a high margin product and you can make loads of money, so where is the harm? its just good business skills.

Or you can ask "is this product harming the community?" and if the answer is yes, avoid it.

As long as Muslims are not buying it because its haram for them and not others, if others want to buy it and they know the risks that go with it why should the seller get the blame for selling it?

My English is not very good

why should it only be about Muslims and not about the wider community?

They are humans too.

besides, there willalways be seepage where what happens in other communities will also happen on Muslim ones too, maybe to different extents, but it will still be there.

Why do you want to be someone who spreads suffering in others, simply for a profit?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
why should it only be about Muslims and not about the wider community?

They are humans too.

Sure, but they are allowed to when Muslims are not

You wrote:

besides, there will always be seepage where what happens in other communities will also happen on Muslim ones too, maybe to different extents, but it will still be there.

That's because monkey see monkey do

You wrote:

Why do you want to be someone who spreads suffering in others, simply for a profit?

[/quote]

Business is Business, in other words it's a cut throat world know one cares about anything or anyone only bringing home profit I’m sure you know what I mean

My English is not very good

lollywood wrote:
Sure, but they are allowed to when Muslims are not

Prohibition is generally based on if it is a good thing or not.

and if it is a bad thing, encouraging others in it even if you abstain is not a good thing.

Do you actually understand what you write? because it seems you are too busy on replying and not really thinking things through.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

lollywood wrote:

Business is Business, in other words it's a cut throat world know one cares about anything or anyone only bringing home profit I’m sure you know what I mean

Worship of money is completely haraam and i think something like not caring about where money comes from (just caring about the money itself) is pretty similar to that.

If, as Muslims, we believe that Allah (swt) is the Provider for us, then we would care mire about trying to earn good, halaal money, & be grateful for all He gives us.
This is why we should say 'Allah is Sufficient' because it will remind ourselves to be patient & not give into temptations for a quick, easy buck.

The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said that he didn't fear poverty for his ummah, rather he feared wealth, because it can lead us to be ungrateful to Allah (swt) or think we our masters of our own destiny/sustenance.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

errrm deleted Biggrin

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

You wrote:

Prohibition is generally based on if it is a good thing or not.
and if it is a bad thing, encouraging others in it even if you abstain is not a good thing.

Ok its not a good thing to encouraging others into some thing bad but Iwould not force them to buy it they would ask me or come to me I would not go to them as they would be the ones needing it

You wrote:

Do you actually understand what you write? because it seems you are too busy on replying and not really thinking things through. (I am suggesting that if you have intelligence, you are hiding it quite well.)

Yes I do

intelligence ....error file not found!

My English is not very good

Ya'qub wrote:

Worship of money is completely haraam and i think something like not caring about where money comes from (just caring about the money itself) is pretty similar to that.

Its how the world is today

Ya'qub wrote:

If, as Muslims, we believe that Allah (swt) is the Provider for us, then we would care mire about trying to earn good, halaal money, & be grateful for all He gives us

If Allah is the Provider then why do some people go down to the benefits office and beg

Ya'qub wrote:

This is why we should say 'Allah is Sufficient' because it will remind ourselves to be patient & not give into temptations for a quick, easy buck.

How about if I go down the shop buy something and I’m short of say 10p the shop keeper says sorry mate your short of 10p, now does Allah throw down 10p?

Ya'qub wrote:

The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said that he didn't fear poverty for his ummah, rather he feared wealth, because it can lead us to be ungrateful to Allah (swt) or think we our masters of our own destiny/sustenance.

That's true

My English is not very good

Lol

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

lollywood wrote:
Its how the world is today

Lets talk about you not the proverbial "world".

your views are your views, not the "world's" and you cant hide behind the scapegoat of imagined wrongs of other people and the world in general.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
well claiming benefits aint haram, have you not figured this out yet?!
And there's so many jobs out there. Plus, I know it was for arguments sake but saying they would only make money if they sold alcohol is stupid.

Wth, tell that to the almost 3million people out there looking for jobs that barely exist.
And they're not just 'lazy' people, how can you fail to be aware of the shocking unemployment rates of these times?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
well claiming benefits aint haram, have you not figured this out yet?!
And there's so many jobs out there. Plus, I know it was for arguments sake but saying they would only make money if they sold alcohol is stupid.

Wth, tell that to the almost 3million people out there looking for jobs that barely exist.
And they're not just 'lazy' people, how can you fail to be aware of the shocking unemployment rates of these times?


Before I said there are other jobs, I said benefits are not haram. sigh.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
well claiming benefits aint haram, have you not figured this out yet?!
And there's so many jobs out there. Plus, I know it was for arguments sake but saying they would only make money if they sold alcohol is stupid.

Wth, tell that to the almost 3million people out there looking for jobs that barely exist.
And they're not just 'lazy' people, how can you fail to be aware of the shocking unemployment rates of these times?


Before I said there are other jobs, I said benefits are not haram. sigh.

So? Whether benefits are halaal or not has nothing to do with making a statement about an abundance of available jobs.

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
lollywood wrote:

You've proved my point by saying what you have above about not many people going there

what?? I have NOT proven your point. I've proven the fact people can live comfortably and halaly despite such 'conditions'

That is not correctly written. Why not instead refer to living in a halal manner, as opposed to using a word which does not exist in English or Arabic.

*Deleted*

Nvm ¬¬

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
lollywood wrote:

You've proved my point by saying what you have above about not many people going there

what?? I have NOT proven your point. I've proven the fact people can live comfortably and halaly despite such 'conditions'

That is not correctly written. Why not instead refer to living in a halal manner, as opposed to using a word which does not exist in English or Arabic.

adding '-ly' 2 the end of a word makes a adjective into an adverb in English, 'halal' is a loan word from arabic, but that doesnt mean we cant anglicise it; the meaning was clear.
In the same way I'm sure you wouldn't object to someone talking about 'hadiths' even though the plural in Arabic is 'ahadith'

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:

So? Whether benefits are halaal or not has nothing to do with making a statement about an abundance of available jobs.


Sorry, you're right it doesn't. I don't know why I bothered replying then.

What I meant was, the person could try finding other jobs instead of just giving up - selling alcohol is not the only thing that brings income. If the person does have business skills they could open up a clothes shop, a shoe shop, a phone shop etc etc. They could try being a taxi driver, a delivery person, admin, they could TRY to find something else.

Yes, the statistics show many people aren't getting jobs, but you have to at least try. And I may be being very naive but I think many factors affect employability e.g background, qualifications, location and the type of job people are going for. There may be certain jobs for which there is a need for more applicants but they're just not getting them.

Or like I said earlier, if the shop is only doing well cuz of the alcohol it may need to change location. Move to somewhere where there is a larger Muslim community, and make sure the person is serving the needs of the community.

Me and my friends were talking today about how a proper unisex hairdressers would be good for our area and one of my friend said her sister was thinking about opening one. This would be a great idea because of the large Muslim community and the fact there aren't really any close by, so, many people would use it.

Spot a gap and take the opportunity Wink

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Or like I said earlier, if the shop is only doing well cuz of the alcohol it may need to change location. Move to somewhere where there is a larger Muslim community, and make sure the person is serving the needs of the community.

If only it was as easy as that
The area the person owns that shop in might have a house there to safe travailing, other family members may live nearby, if he was to move out of that area he might find it hard to get a new house which is suitable for him he might not be able to see his extended family members as much as he wants and if he was to drive there and see them from the new location that would waste petrol money so he may not be better off after all

My English is not very good

Ya'qub wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
lollywood wrote:

You've proved my point by saying what you have above about not many people going there

what?? I have NOT proven your point. I've proven the fact people can live comfortably and halaly despite such 'conditions'

That is not correctly written. Why not instead refer to living in a halal manner, as opposed to using a word which does not exist in English or Arabic.

adding '-ly' 2 the end of a word makes a adjective into an adverb in English, 'halal' is a loan word from arabic, but that doesnt mean we cant anglicise it; the meaning was clear.
In the same way I'm sure you wouldn't object to someone talking about 'hadiths' even though the plural in Arabic is 'ahadith'

Applying '-ly' to the end of a word is the practise of using a suffix. An adjective is simply a word which describes a noun. Adverbs describe how?, in what way?, when?, where?, to what extent?. In any case, the original "halaly" poster has shown a weak knowledge of grammar, in painting (metaphorically speaking) such a use of language in the above cited post. As far as I am aware, there is at present no consensus as to the correct English plural of 'hadith', which is why Muslim people conspicuosly apply a variety of terms to denote sayings ascribed to our prophet.

If people want to have a debate in English, then the correct spelling and grammar should be used, or at the very least reasonable attempts should be made for its use. This is also an essential language skill if you want to be successful in giving dawah to non-Muslims, isn't it?

I think there is a hadith or something along the lines that if you look into matters too deeply you will lose yourself.

I think this applies here with all the mental gymnastics required to get to the various suppositions.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

I think there is a hadith or something along the lines that if you look into matters too deeply you will lose yourself.

I think this applies here with all the mental gymnastics required to get to the various suppositions.

Islam is both simple and logical, neither of which are supported by the original assertion.

and arguing about wether to "ly" or not to is ... a waste of time.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

@Knightsbridge, You're right, it's a made up word.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Every single person who has tracked this topic of discussion has used an advanced level of intelect and every single user who has contributed to this topic of discussion (regardless of their school of thought) has displayed advanced epistemological skills. I would therefore urge you all to find out more about the labyrinth of Islamic Philosophy.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Every single person who has tracked this topic of discussion has used an advanced level of intelect and every single user who has contributed to this topic of discussion (regardless of their school of thought) has displayed advanced epistemological skills. I would therefore urge you all to find out more about the labyrinth of Islamic Philosophy.

Are you a robot?

Thanks for the compliment though. And please explain the bold - what are they? Thanks.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
knightsbridge_brother wrote:
Every single person who has tracked this topic of discussion has used an advanced level of intelect and every single user who has contributed to this topic of discussion (regardless of their school of thought) has displayed advanced epistemological skills. I would therefore urge you all to find out more about the labyrinth of Islamic Philosophy.

Are you a robot?

Thanks for the compliment though. And please explain the bold - what are they? Thanks.

Lol my thoughts exactly

Please don't carry on this convo about justifying selling haram products or even serving it. You're just being ridiculous, use some common sense. If it's haram to do, eat or whatever, how can using this haram become halal? Think!!!

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

Epistemology is a branch of Philosophy concerned with analysing human knowledge and the dichotomies of Truth vis-à-vis Beliefs. A labyrinth is a word which I used to describe the deep and fascinating nature of Islamic Philosophy.

People who use big words generally use them to hide the flaws in their arguments (or are students).

Otherwise they would ue everyday words like veryone else.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
People who use big words generally use them to hide the flaws in their arguments (or are students).

Otherwise they would ue everyday words like veryone else.

Is this the truth or is it part of your own belief (philosophical question)? I am an educated person and i'm accustomed to writing long essays as part of my current studies. My use of vocabulary would only appear "big" to a person who is simply very small.

knightsbridge_brother wrote:
My use of vocabulary would only appear "big" to a person who is very small.

How dare you be so arrogant.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

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